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How Busy?

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Andyph
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How Busy?

Post by Andyph » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:53 am

Just wondering what traffic you get here these days?

Since Valley changed to the Hawk T2 (no weapons) I can't imagine there is much range work?

Last time I was there was about 1988 and as well as the TWU Hawks there were Sea Harriers, Harrier GR3s, A-10s and F-111s - happy days

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Blackcat1
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Blackcat1 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:27 pm

Yes I remember those great days . Now it's mainly Hawks and helicopters, and beach landings from C130s & A400s which are NOTAMED. Typhoons & F15s do use the range occasionally.
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Yammer
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Yammer » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:40 pm

Plenty of Hawk T2 visit Pembrey.

Last Thursday VICTOR 20 visited at around 3pm. They can simulate weapons training.

Always worth a scan.
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Andyph
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Andyph » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:49 pm

it used to be 2 bases worth of TWU Hawks (chivenor and Brawdy) and they still had slots for front line .

Wonder why they need a range when they are dry in the T2's

When I used to go to the ranges in the 80s you never saw helicopters - now it seems they are the main traffic for many.

Does the Navy still use Lilstock?

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Yammer
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Yammer » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:21 am

Let's not get stuck living in the past - today is almost 2021.

Everything today is pretty minimal in comparison.

Ranges - Pure guess work - the T2 may not have any weapons on them, but the pilots still need to learn/practice the delivery of weapons, angle of attacks, air to ground comms, varying weather - whilst some of this can be done on a simulator they still require to fly these profiles.

T2 are sometimes used for the various NOTAM FAC/JTAC sorties ( more often 100sqd Hawk T1 but not always ) - often simulating other types of aircraft ( A-10, Typhoon, F-16 etc )

Helicopters - I'd guesstimate that helicopter make up a much larger proportion of our aircraft fleet and sorties flown than than back in nostalgia times. Helicopters have been the bread and butter of operations over the past few decades in hot and sandy places - as such they use and need to practice air to ground gunnery and flare release etc etc.

Lilstock - not sure but believed active, often with RN Wildcats
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Yammer
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Yammer » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:35 am

this from the RAF website re the T2

""The Mk 2’s avionics enable simulations of many of the functions of a modern fighter, combined with an extensive mission debrief system that extracts maximum output from every sortie. Via the aircraft’s data link, for example, synthetic radar returns are generated for intercept and basic fighter manoeuvres training, yet no radar is fitted. The on board simulation capability also enables air-to-ground ‘weapon drops’, realistic electronic warfare (EW) training against surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems and other complex operational scenarios.""
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Andyph
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Andyph » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:15 pm

Yammer wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:21 am
Let's not get stuck living in the past - today is almost 2021.

Everything today is pretty minimal in comparison.

Ranges - Pure guess work - the T2 may not have any weapons on them, but the pilots still need to learn/practice the delivery of weapons, angle of attacks, air to ground comms, varying weather - whilst some of this can be done on a simulator they still require to fly these profiles.

T2 are sometimes used for the various NOTAM FAC/JTAC sorties ( more often 100sqd Hawk T1 but not always ) - often simulating other types of aircraft ( A-10, Typhoon, F-16 etc )

Helicopters - I'd guesstimate that helicopter make up a much larger proportion of our aircraft fleet and sorties flown than than back in nostalgia times. Helicopters have been the bread and butter of operations over the past few decades in hot and sandy places - as such they use and need to practice air to ground gunnery and flare release etc etc.

Lilstock - not sure but believed active, often with RN Wildcats
Don't think we are stuck in the past - Although I'm sure most people would love to get out of 2020!

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. Yes I know the T2 is used for simulated weapons training .
But that is the point it is simulated
if you are not dropping anything - why do you need a range? You can fly the attack profiles over a farmers barn.

- on the face of it a range is for three purposes

1) to allow the safe delivery of 'live' weapons
2) to score the accuracy of the attacks.
3) to allow protected airspace to operate in.

only point 3 makes sense for a T2 but that seems a lot of overkill.

I remember seeing the first helicopters at the ranges in the Mid- 90s - actually they started using them when the Balkans war was heating up.

Lilstock makes sense - was a limited Sea Harrier range back in the day

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Yammer
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Yammer » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:20 pm

""if you are not dropping anything - why do you need a range? You can fly the attack profiles over a farmers barn.""

No not really.

A range is a defined protected facility - aircraft, maybe low and noisy are welcomed.

Any old farmers barn could be used once, do it too often and you'll no doubt get noise complaints from the community and possible bills for worried livestock and horses.

FAC/JTAC training sometimes sets up on a hillside and targets local building and vehicles, all pre-planned and NOTAMed. Hawks T1 and T2 partake in this. Training for the aircrew and the army ground units.

A range will have targets "ranging" from canvas targets to old tanks and old aircraft, SAM sites, trenches etc etc - part of the training is for the pilot to locate, comment on and try to identify what he saw, can he identify the difference between friendly and enemy.

Weather plays a big role finding targets especially if working with guys on the ground who are impatient for your attack profile - cloud cover, broken cloud cover, low cloud base all adds to the pressure of finding, identifying and safely attacking without killing yourself or your friendlies on the ground. Live or simulated the purpose is the same.

I'm close to a facility where helicopter training with weapons takes place - simulated usually but regular, at anytime of the day or night. Makes for interesting comms.

No doubt lots of other good reasons too.
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Andyph
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Andyph » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:27 am

Blackcat1 wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:27 pm
Yes I remember those great days . Now it's mainly Hawks and helicopters, and beach landings from C130s & A400s which are NOTAMED. Typhoons & F15s do use the range occasionally.
I also remember in the 80s a couple of Mirage IV's on the radio leaving Spadeadam and saying they were heading to Pembrey via the Lake District and Wales.
The Mirage IV's used to come up with a tanker into the North Sea once a month (third Thursday I think?) - then attack Spadeadam - happy days. I think the tanker often used to do a PD into Brize or St Mawgan

I'm sure Pembrey must have got lots of French over the years!

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Blackcat1
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Re: How Busy?

Post by Blackcat1 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:23 am

Years ago yes. Super Etendards and Mirages ( Ex Brilliant foil / invader etc) . Rafales a few times but they prefer Castlemartin.
Gareth

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