RAF Displays - Dull but why?

[RichC]

Looking at the various comments made at Dubai and elsewhere of the 3 Sqn Typhoons being as dull as a door nail compared to the Rafale (hard to beat) etc i was wondering why "now" the RAF displays have indeed become so dull....
1. They are flying further away and higher than ever before
2. They really do not show what the aircraft are capable of.

If i remember correctly, when the Typhoon was on its first legs and displayed by BAe Test Pilots it was thrown around the air like a good'un including zoom climbs until you couldn't see it anymore. Obviously this sort of display is good for marketing but then so should all air displays.
Since the displays are now flown by the RAF they seem to have gone down hill dramatically in terms of putting the jets through what they were designed for (High energy manoeuvres).

At Dawlish and Elsewhere, the Hawk displayed so far out to sea you might as well have been in Jersey to see it and so high at times it was useless to any photographer without a 500mm lens and converter!

With the excellent Rafale display team this year in the UK and elsewhere, many, including myself have commented about the superb flying the pilot put on and he really did show what the Rafale was about and to be honest, it put any British fast jet display to shame....including the USAF too.

With the absence of RAF aircraft at most shows now (flying) it is obvious we are becoming to rely on foreign air forces to crowd please because the RAF are simply not flying anymore at most airshows bar their own.

IF other nations are prepared to give the public and aviation industry what they are looking for in a jet then what on earth is happening to the RAF displays?
And don't come out with "We are fighting a war" excuse because so are the other nations and they can still put on a show and support airshows with so much more.

The other fact is... if the RAF can fly a large formation of aircraft over London for the Queen several times a year then why can't they find a couple of front liners to display at an airshow, it is far cheaper than those flypasts and obviously far fewer aircraft involved.

It shouldn't have to the way where people look at participation lists (if they choose too) and decide to go or not to go because there are no European or American or Eastern Bloc roaring going on.
The Government/MoD should be proud to show off our inventory at public events anf put on the show the public (and corporate) want.
Afterall, bad publicity is not good for anyone. The more the RAF put on such dull displays, the more people will snub them and comment like they have done with "Dull, boring, not dynamic enough, crap, not up to standard".
I'm sure the crews want to do their bit but are they restricted?

[GOOSE]

A lot of it Rich is to do with FI (Fatigue Index)

A crisp, close turning display uses up a lot of FI on an airframe.

The aircraft manufacturer sets a finite life for major airframe components.

Once that FI is reached that part or even airframe is considered life expired.

I would suggest that as we are no longer to receive our 232 Typhoons as ordered, then FI saving is of a major concern?

[Sheff]

Think you know the answers already!

The Hawk display always looks dull because it's a small aircraft and the ridiculous over-egged rules concerning height and distance separation mean that the aircraft has to be positioned a huge distance from spectators. Big or noisy aircraft compensate for this but the poor ol' Hawk cannot.

Flying up the Mall once a year is vastly cheaper than operating a handful of aircraft through a display season. Keeping just a couple of Tornado GR4's with air and ground crews available every weekend, and supporting rehearsals during the week, requires manpower and logistics. Judgement has been made that it's unaffordable. Okay, it would be possible to do something for maybe one weekend (RIAT?) but again, it requires rehearsal and time, and it would be an additional cost, whereas HM's Birthday flypast is pretty-much fixed forever. It's not an either-or situation.

Other countries do have commitments but it's fair to say that the RAF's are pretty serious ones especially in proportion to the actual size and manpower of the RAF. We all know that the RAF is already severely under-funded so it's hardly surprising that air displays have simply dropped off the radar.

As for French flair, well it has always been thus. Basic problem seems to be that RAF display pilots are (like everyone) bound by rules and regulations, and this fosters a conservative approach to display flying which isn't shared by France. They seem rather more inclined to stretch the aircraft's and pilot's limits as far as possible within constraints whereas the British approach seems to be to merely make things as safe and predictable as possible, within all the constraints to maintain safety, separation from the spectators, aircraft limits, fatigue, etc. Guess it's a symptom of national character.

It's true that we're relying on foreign aircraft to make our shows even vaguely interesting but of course this situation is only likely to deteriorate as overseas air arms will increasingly suffer from the same cost considerations and will be less and less inclined to send aircraft to Britain when we are largely incapable (or unwilling) to send aircraft to them when asked.

Like you say, I'm sure all the air crews would love to show-off to the public, but we're stuck with what we have. Basic (and rather sad) fact of life is that RAF air display participation peaked long ago and it's pretty-much gone forever. We will ultimately be left with just the Reds and BBMF and of course they ain't gonna be around forever either. Good airshows are definitely subjects for nostalgia junkies like me!

[T_J]

Flt Lt Tom Saunders has stated on the following that he intends to display more of the Hawk top surfaces next year.

Tom is also looking for ideas for the 2010 colour scheme.

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic. ... &sk=t&sd=a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TJ

[Sheff]

Dark Sea Grey and Green with red/blue roundels would be nice! Oh wait, here comes another all-black machine with some daft red and white Union Flag design on it... zzz

[airtyphoon]

I think that the typhoon display was ok this year and as has already been said it can still be improved. maybe the RAF Could add smokewinder's to the display and maybe a fresh routine for 2010.

I didn't see the hawk display this year so cannot comment on the hawk display.

at Bournemouth The king air display for me was to high up and to far out.

I think the Red Arrows and the BBMF Displays this year were great and improve every year.
I believe the red arrows are planning a BOB Formation next year
http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/teamnews/ind ... B23A0D4901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HighlandSniper]

Being so far from the centre, I haven't seen much of the RAF's display routine of late, but I really can't fault the Typhoon routine except to say it was way too far out from the crown line at Lossie in August. Even using the EF100-400is at 1.6x crop it was a struggle to get anything approaching a frame filler. Can't comment on any of the other displays and none bothered their backsides to attend Lossie this year which had to be the worst RAF Friends and Families day I've ever attended - and I've been to more than a few over the past 45 years.

[Blackcat1]

I agree Rich, the Hawk display at Swansea was far out to sea, the Typhoon display at Swansea this year wasnt as impressive as 3 years ago, the best part of the show for me was the Chinook display, which i wasnt expecting, thanks to the crew for an impressive close up display, they turned that thing as hard as the Typhoon pilot! lol