Reporting Live Ops threads

[Duncan Disorderley]

Only members of FC can see the heads up section am I right and you jave to be logged in??True there is the word of mouth passing on but not every one can see this section unless this as changed?

Paul, that is correct - but our "vetting" of new members only runs so far as to checking their email addresses to make sure it doesn't flag up something dodgy (spam, for example). We do have a huge amount of members who register just for the purpose of viewing the members-only areas and never intend to contribute or get involved. For 95% of the time, we have no idea who these people actually are, or could be - hence our caution. We are looking at ways to reduce this, so stay tuned.

I sympathise with the mods, but by switching off the thread, people are likely to switch to discussing this on more public forums such as Twitter.

Duncan - a good point, and perhaps one we did not consider.

Twatter is rife with air crew telling "friends"what they are tanking,"I'm friends with a boomer" is herd quite alot down the Hall .

your quite right Paul regarding military personnel, but that's for the military to effectively police it's social media policy.

[Gary]

I'm going to temporarily lock the thread and split it, with the debate being placed into a more appropriate section. So hold fire for a few mins

[rh226]

Question for the Mods.

Why can we see a number of guests showing as viewing these threads in the Members-only section??

At time of posting there are none showing on this thread, but on the (now) locked thread I noticed up to 4 showing at various times during this morning!! Or, are these members that wish to their session remain anonymous?? If so, why do we allow this anonymity?

[BOLLO]

This should be moved up to the mess.

[Gary]

Bob

I would take a guess at it might be to do with the option of "Hide my online status this session" when you sign into the forum? Hopefully one of the Admin will be able to confirm

Paul

One step at a time I was just finishing splitting the thread, will be moved shortly.

[Gary]

Right debate away if anyone can think of a more apt title let me know

[EGNV]

This is an interesting thread. Personally i think no posts of Live OP'S should be created until after they've happened. They should then be highly watched by the Moderators. But you can argue that no one new it was a live OP until they headed South. Its a difficult one.

[edarter]

Common sense would say no posting of live ops. How would any of us feel if it were our sons and daughters involved? I for one would not want my lads safety compromised in any way just so a number of us can track whats going on as our hobby.
I missed the thread at the time but support the decision to pull it based on what I've read here.

[Zymurgy661]

Bob

I would take a guess at it might be to do with the option of "Hide my online status this session" when you sign into the forum? Hopefully one of the Admin will be able to confirm

Correct i believe. If you chose to hide your online status when logging in it will treat you as a guest in terms of the number of active users count.

The restriction on posting/reading the Heads Up/OTT section is only that you need to be a registered user. As has already been highlighted, the checks carried out during user activation are purely to avoid spam accounts and the such like out (although the odd one will still slip through). Other than that we cannot prove the identity or intentions of anyone viewing.

We also know some of these users who sign up just to access information do so as they are members of the media looking for a story (hello and wave to those if you are reading!) but knowing exactly which accounts those are is impossible. Perhaps its time to review the restriction level on heads up/ott?

At the end of the day, a judgement call was made last night that some feel was OTT and others agree with. Always likely to happen with this number of members and whichever action was taken (leave or remove) would have resulted in a group of people being unhappy. Lose/lose for the mod team who come under fire whichever way!

Interesting to read peoples views though and we will take it all on board. Construcive feedback is the way forward and good adult debate on the topic is spot on.

[BOLLO]

This is an interesting thread. Personally i think no posts of Live OP'S should be created until after they've happened. They should then be highly watched by the Moderators. But you can argue that no one new it was a live OP until they headed South. Its a difficult one.

You don't know its a "real world" op until so far down the line as per the first gig and then last night.We all thought that it was other receivers until the F 15's were seen in the climb out of LN.I herd no comms from LN ground or tower so had no clue un till they were seen and a brief call to BOLAR OS .By then perhaps the mods should have stept in or were they "drawn in" like the rest of us ?? CATCH 22 mate .

[edarter]

Complete newbie question about this sort of thing, apologies if its a stupid one!... Is there a chance the mission was scrubbed because of the coverage on this forum?

[BOLLO]

Complete newbie question about this sort of thing, apologies if its a stupid one!... Is there a chance the mission was scrubbed because of the coverage on this forum?

Who knows bud,some may say it was but I doubt it .

[bobthehandyman]

Hi all,
Just to add my thoughts, I don't have an issue with the mods doing what they there to do, it's their call, I look and comment on FC by choice, if I don't like it I can go elsewhere.

That said I'm sure if the USAF or the RAF wanted to carry out operations without any of us knowing they could, they have a vast organisation and blocking social media really isn't that difficult, China does it every day, and you can be sure they are looking at this site and others like it, listening in on phone calls ect.

[Doughnut]

Hi all,
Just to add my thoughts, I don't have an issue with the mods doing what they there to do, it's their call, I look and comment on FC by choice, if I don't like it I can go elsewhere.

That said I'm sure if the USAF or the RAF wanted to carry out operations without any of us knowing they could, they have a vast organisation and blocking social media really isn't that difficult, China does it every day, and you can be sure they are looking at this site and others like it, listening in on phone calls ect.

That may be true. But do we (FC) or the general public at large really want to risk that happening.

[plmc135]

Just another thought. Has any mention been made anywhere in the National press or on television recently suggesting that an operation against ISIS, or any other terror organisation, has been mounted from the UK. I believe the answer is no, could that possibly be because a request has been made not to publish this information.

Live Ops should not be reported, it could just encourage a sleeper cell in the UK to take some action that we would all abhor.

Paul

[Stug]

Common sense would say no posting of live ops. How would any of us feel if it were our sons and daughters involved? I for one would not want my lads safety compromised in any way just so a number of us can track whats going on as our hobby.
I missed the thread at the time but support the decision to pull it based on what I've read here.

Quite agree. I can understand the "thrill" of watching a scenario unfold but I think it should be kept to yourself or certainly not posted on public forums.
However, how easy is it to know when it's a live op?
When I first starting monitoring as a lad I'd never imagine this level of information would be available so I feel quite privileged to be able to share or read others heads up.

[UKADGE]

VERY INTRESTING DEBATE... Chances are some one somewear will be listning.. unless its a wee small hours launch. So someone will post a report on the activity. Then if wind does come in its a live mission ongoing... the MODS can block the thread. None of us would want to unwittingly increase the risk for those on the mission or compromise it in any way. I think we have to trust OUR MODS to use their judgement.

[scimitar]

VERY INTRESTING DEBATE... Chances are some one somewear will be listning.. unless its a wee small hours launch. So someone will post a report on the activity. Then if wind does come in its a live mission ongoing... the MODS can block the thread. None of us would want to unwittingly increase the risk for those on the mission or compromise it in any way. I think we have to trust OUR MODS to use their judgement.

So you expect the MODS to monitor the forum 24/7. 3,2,1 you're back in the room.

Cammy

[TonyO]

Just another thought. Has any mention been made anywhere in the National press or on television recently suggesting that an operation against ISIS, or any other terror organisation, has been mounted from the UK. I believe the answer is no, could that possibly be because a request has been made not to publish this information.

Live Ops should not be reported, it could just encourage a sleeper cell in the UK to take some action that we would all abhor.

Paul

No, it is because no one at Africom, Centcom and Eucom are willing to confirm it or release anything. The reality is, FCer's didn't know it was a live op until it was launched and the radios and technology we use only have have a certain range and reach, Ultimately we have no idea where the jets actually went, a lot of that is guesswork, educated guesswork at that, mind you.

[acw367]

I am firmly in the camp of drawing the bead window and helping afford all military aircrew the Operational Security they deserve.

The reporting of QRA missions on here I find particularly difficult to condone
We all remember this incident for the Latvian.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=105904&start=20
and the media attention it got as it was still a live mission http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -Kent.html

These are ARMED missions where until it is resolved NOBODY knows how dangerous or escalated this may become. Image logging onto FC while aslo expecting your family back from a holiday on a Ryanair or Easyjet, only to find that flight subject to QRA and it rapidly escalating. If anything were to happen to the flight, how appalled would the families be to see the and and symbols being used as the lives of loved ones are at threat and associated innocent lives. You may always assume it will be successfully resolved BUT WHAT IF IT ISN'T.

Please for QRA just note the jets are airborne and maybe give callsigns and Hex codes for those that want to watch/listen. But please please consider waiting to post further details until you are certain and fully clear that the incident is fully resolved and there is no further threat. Then post all the post-incident analysis and speculation you want.

Also it is not just the Armed Missions - reporting RC-135 or Sentry or MPA on outbound legs on what we all can work out are active ISR Collect missions or Submarine hunting missions, could give a few hours notice to those other non-NATO forces to employ emmission control or run silent techniques which could inadvertantly jeopardise the effectiveness of the NATO military mission. In these cases I wouldn't even report the launch and wait till they are coming back inbound to provide post incident analysis.

I know not all would agree but hopefully some will think and pause and consider third order effects before posting anything about these kind of Operational missions.