Iran, current events and ongoing sabre rattling!

[T_J]

Iran does have history of producing fakes. During 2010 they paraded S-300 systems that looked very dodgy compared to the real thing.

http://defensetech.org/2010/04/19/irani ... -together/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://gallery.military.ir/albums/userpics/IMG_0511.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apologies, Synchro Pair as I didn't see your post earlier.

[zero_gravity]

IRINN TV is showing a longer sequence including what looks archive head up display footage and a summary of
US drone action in the area.

I need to study the video , something doesn't add up.

[hertsman]

Unless the Russians have figured out how to spot a stealth aircraft? It is going to happen, even if it may not have happened yet. Each advance is countered by a solution and everything moves on again.

This is a concern of mine about stealth, it's great right up to the point where it isn't great any more. My technical knowledge is almost non-existent, so I am speaking empirically rather than scientifically, but it worries me that it is a one-shot defence.

I still don't know what to make of all this, but I am swaying towards the Iranians having achieved something here - but I am not certain what. I will be happy to be proved wrong.

hertsman

[T_J]

But the US has not rushed to rubbish the images - as far as I can see. Because they can't or because keeping quiet is a wiser policy?

Undecided myself, but if the Iranians did grab control and land it that is a bit of a worry on all sorts of levels.

hertsman

The RQ-170 might have been in bits after crashing but the Iranians have to go with their version of events - hence a possible mock-up showing it intact?

[SteveS]

Here's an update -

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12 ... latestnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SteveS]

I say update, but it is Fox News and the quotes from this official look a little ropey -

"Yep, that's it. And it's intact."

Hmmm....

[zero_gravity]

If you have Sky TV , look up "Press TV"
They are showing the some of the video sequence together with details about how the drone was downed [alledgedly]
On close examination the only damage appears to be on the wing section leading edge.

I'm still not convinced the Iranians [alone] have the technology to hijack and control the flight management system , thats not to say
they didnt have help though.

If they hacked the downlink video , the interlaced control screens would have given location and flight state , but as I mentioned in an earlier post , overcoming the the satellite's counter measure system would have been a different matter.

Did they , didnt they...lets see if there is a Pentagon briefing later this evening [ check the web feed
http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ]

[hertsman]

We may not learn where the truth lies in this incident for some time, if at all.

There seems to be a substantial body of FC opinion that thinks the Iranians are making it up that they downed it but mocking it up to try and prove they did; others that this is a disinformation ruse by the US, and yet others who think the craft may have just crashed and the Iranians are half making it up by mocking it up and taking an opportunity to discomfort the septics. A few may even believe the Iranians, though this seems to be the outside bet. Now, where's Ray Winstone with the latest in-play odds? Anyone fancy " 'aving a bang on thaat "?

And what do we make of the American response, such as it has been? All un-sourced comments to various news outlets but nothing official as yet that I know of.

I can convince myself about any of the options I outline above, and then I start to do a Vicky Pollard
"Yes, but, no but,...."

hertsman

[hertsman]

What could the US gain from letting Iran think it has the real deal??? I can see no valid reason myself.

Well, they could want them to think they can crack America's stealth technology so they will be able to 'see' other stealth aircraft en route to attack their nuclear processing facilities, when in fact they won't. The American's apparent eagerness to tell how Obama carefully weighed the options for destroying the evidence could be read at face value or as an attempt to verify the plane is for real as part of the subterfuge. But this is all pure speculation of course.

And I agree with zero_gravity, the Iranians are unlikely to have hijacked it (if they did) without help, probably from Russians operating the Avtobaza equipment they supplied them recently (my earlier post in this thread refers).

hertsman

[hertsman]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/5 ... ag0131.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Iran now claims to have used advanced technology systems to have disabled and captured a high-tech Ford automobile, and have released images to the world's media.

An unnamed official from from Ford security laboratories was quoted by CNN as saying:

"We are aware that the Iranian's are claiming they obtained control of the vehicle's central processing unit, causing it to be brought to a controlled stop. But closer examination of the photo suggests some b*****d threw bricks at it".

hertsman

[swingy]

Of course one option not yet discussed is that a Msgt Ah ma dinner jacket was working with the 432 Wing at Creech AFB and simply wanted to do a fly past over his old school but mucked it up .

The more I look at the video the more I conclude it is a fake. I think the grill is from a Chrysler 300 and the guys is say yeah this bit here is still wet so dont brush against it or the stealth propoerties will mean the viewers will never see you.

[quid21]

To be fair one of the footage that I have seen shows the underneath of the craft which is likely to have suffered considerably more damage than the top.

Frankly is it not conceivable that the craft came down in the desert the US declared a drone was missing, and meanwhile the Iranians found it in the desert days later and claimed they'd shot it down?

The plastic look could be something to do with it being made from composite material as opposed to metal.

Personally I think that it came down in the desert, the mesh not being aligned is due to the landing, the majority of damage is probably underneath and the wings have been stuck on to the fuselage.

The US has not denied that its theirs. Normal procedure is to deny all knowledge which they have not done yet.

[T_J]

Higher resolution images are now available.



Links to other images

http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/3.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From

http://theaviationist.com/2011/12/08/stealth-pix/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Richard B]

Looks like the real thing.would not look to much at artist impressions etc,
the mesh i would guess to be a desert or sand filter on the front to combat sand dust that can be found high up in this region of the world.

the drone as a small turbine that would be prone to such dust so at a guess its a mesh with filter behined.the F117 had mesh like around its intakes.
did they jam it and bring it down or did it malfunction,

they did find it very fast thou so feel they did have site or some other way of knowing where it went down in such a baron remote area.

[zero_gravity]

Playing devil's advocate , these things spew out a constant data stream at 31.5 ghz.[ downlink 20.2 to 20.5 ghz ]
Ka band transmissions are high power.

Whilst ground stations will be masked from the transmissions , which will usually be fired direct to the geo satellite [ in this case one of the UHF Follow on /Gap Filler birds which carry the GBS package ] they will stick out like a beacon if orbital assets are used , looking down .


If for one moment we assume that this is the real deal , then everything points to Iran receiving assistance from a space power.

[zero_gravity]

Here's an example of how the drone data is packaged.
This is from the European theatre



This image was recorded a few years ago and I have removed any info which might be deemed sensitive.
Its a typical digital downlink showing the IP stream IDs of a number of UAVs in operation.

Things have obviously moved on in the last few years but the principle remains the same.

To have received the downlink you need to be in the footprint.
The footprint of the US mil sats can be pretty tight as little as a 50 mile radius in some instances , so its unlikely that the downlink , which would be relayed back from the US to theatre , would be receivable in Iran , but its quite possible that it was being beamed down to a control centre elsewhere in the region.

Lets suppose that the data stream was being monitored in near real time by a friendly , then the location of the drone would have been pretty easy to determine as the lat long will be overlaid on the downlink.

This is all on the premise that the data stream was unencrypted.

Thats the easy bit.

The command data stream down to the drone will also be tightly focussed and probably come from a different mil sat......but if you happened to be in the area , directly below the target then it will be possible to examine the data.

The hard bit would be to overide that signal .....and replace it with valid commands.
I'm pretty sure that's beyond Irans capability....but not beyond that of others.

All speculation of course...

[wokka]

Why does everything seem so much like a novel? Its almost slow motion. I really am having trouble with the fact that supposedly the most state of the art hardware happens to have been cyberjacked by a rogue nation and the only US response when the item is finally presented to the media is, "err, yeah, that looks about right, must be the one, cheers". This is all too much like something from Tom Clancy's mind for me. There is a twist to this plot that hasnt been revealed.

[quid21]

Perhaps the mesh was because they wanted the drone to have extra lo protection for it's incursion into Iran? They did it with those special Blackhawks into Pakistan. F-117 used a mesh to reduce the intakes radar signature so why not mod the 170 to include that feature for it's special overflight purpose...

[RichC]

Are you guys not up to gen on Stealth technology then?
What's this?



Yes, F117 with mesh covered intakes. The FLIR on the nose is also covered in fine mesh. A lot of the stealth programmes have mesh over the intakes. So why are people making such a big deal over seeing mesh over the intake of that on the RQ170?

[Flyingmonster]

Am I right in thinking the Mesh helps reduce the Radar Cross Section?

Im still not sure on the whole Iranian claim.