RAF to field retained Tranche 1 Typhoons as stand-alone ai

[Vulcanone]

A little bit more recent news From Janes

http://www.janes.com/article/59243/raf- ... ence-force

Full article

Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

The UK Royal Air Force (RAF) is to field as a separate air defence force the Tranche 1 (T1) Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft that are to be retained in service beyond their original retirement date.

The 24 T1 aircraft that were extended from 2019 to the wider Typhoon out-of-service date (OSD) of 2040 in the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) of November 2015 will be formed into two distinct air defence squadrons, rather than being mixed with other T2 and T3 aircraft in other multirole units, Deputy Commander of Operations Air Marshal Greg Bagwell told reporters on 30 March.

"The issue was how to operate the Tranche 1 alongside the Tranche 2 and 3 as there is very little spares commonality between them, so it was decided that the plan [should be] for two new squadrons of Tranche 1 Typhoons," AM Bagwell said.

Given the software limitations of the T1, the RAF has decided not to try and upgrade these particular platforms with the Phase Enhancement upgrade packages that will afford the T2 and T3 platforms with the full swing-role capability set. As such, they will be used solely for air defence duties, and perhaps for adversarial air combat training for other RAF aircraft types.

"The Tranche 1s will be used purely for air defence, as an upgrade [for swing-role] will be prohibitively expensive. The two squadrons of Tranche 1 Typhoons will own the air defence role, and we are also looking at using them for 'red air' along with the Hawk," AM Bagwell noted.

The UK bases its Typhoons at RAF Conginsby in England (Quick reaction Alert [QRA] South) and at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland (QRA North). It also has a detachment of four air defence aircraft permanently stationed in the Falkland Islands.

In terms of the UK QRA, AM Bagwell said it has not yet been decided where the T1 Typhoons will be based but he did note that from a support perspective it would make sense that they should all be at one location.

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[RubyRoo]

I thought the RAF had 53 Tranche 1 Typhoon's, rather than the 24 being mentioned here?

What happened to the other 29?

In terms of the UK QRA, AM Bagwell said it has not yet been decided where the T1 Typhoons will be based but he did note that from a support perspective it would make sense that they should all be at one location.

This bit is the important bit I feel. If they want to place all Tranche 1 aircraft as dedicated QRA aircraft in one location, then perhaps 'QRA North' and 'QRA South' will be centralised. Coupled with the fact that they also want these Typhoon's to perform the role of 'Red Air Aggressors', it would make sense for them to operate out of RAF Leeming. There will have to be some groundwork on base for them to operate Typhoon's full time, but to me this is looking like the most likely outcome.

[gamecock]

The remaining aircraft will be RTP'd. The basing arrangements will be interesting. It's going to cost a pretty penny to create a third Typhoon main operating base.

[RubyRoo]

The remaining aircraft will be RTP'd. The basing arrangements will be interesting. It's going to cost a pretty penny to create a third Typhoon main operating base.

I don't understand why they would be RTP'd aside from reducing the cost of operating that many Typhoon's. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to put them in storage?

This quote suggests that the Tranche 1 aircraft have little in common spares wise with the T2 and T3 aircraft, which surprises me.

"The issue was how to operate the Tranche 1 alongside the Tranche 2 and 3 as there is very little spares commonality between them, so it was decided that the plan [should be] for two new squadrons of Tranche 1 Typhoons," AM Bagwell said.

A fleet of 24 Typhoon's surely don't require a pool of 29 aircraft to snip parts off?

[markranger]

The remaining aircraft will be RTP'd. The basing arrangements will be interesting. It's going to cost a pretty penny to create a third Typhoon main operating base.

I don't understand why they would be RTP'd aside from reducing the cost of operating that many Typhoon's. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to put them in storage?

This quote suggests that the Tranche 1 aircraft have little in common spares wise with the T2 and T3 aircraft, which surprises me.

"The issue was how to operate the Tranche 1 alongside the Tranche 2 and 3 as there is very little spares commonality between them, so it was decided that the plan [should be] for two new squadrons of Tranche 1 Typhoons," AM Bagwell said.

A fleet of 24 Typhoon's surely don't require a pool of 29 aircraft to snip parts off?

Yes you would need more like 40 airframes to maintain 2 Sqns of 12 aircraft you would think.

[alanp]

Maybe the Army would be happy to hand back Leuchars, given they didn't really want it in the first place. It's Typhoon ready.

[gamecock]

A fleet of 24 Typhoon's surely don't require a pool of 29 aircraft to snip parts off?

To keep them in service for an extra 21 years? Maybe. How many Tornados have been RTP'd so far, and how many are still in service? (I've no idea!)

The two squadrons of Tranche 1 Typhoons will own the air defence role, and we are also looking at using them for 'red air' along with the Hawk," AM Bagwell noted.

This seems to be a different emphasis on their role from what was first mooted - QRA with a 'possibility' of red air-type missions.

[Steven]

How many Tornados have been RTP'd so far, and how many are still in service? (I've no idea!)

Jets to RTP: 65
Jets in service: 70

And that doesn't include the F3's that were used as well so your point stands.

[Thunder]

Move any one of the current Coningsby Sqns to Lossie, then form and base the two new Tranche 1 Sqns at Coningsby with a 4 a/c QRA detachment at Lossie and Mount Pleasent, or the other way round.

[3-Left]

It's only politician-speak, but they seem to think at least one of the new Typhoon squadrons will go to Lossiemouth:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... -typhoons/

If they want to keep two new Typhoon squadrons together for ease of servicing you'd think they'd both go to Lossiemouth, or maybe one to Lossiemouth and one to Coningsby.

I'd like to see a new Typhoon base elsewhere (Leeming being the most obvious choice) but I reckon more likely to squeeze the new aircraft into the existing Typhoon bases. Very little chance they'll reopen Leuchars IMHO.

Still a few years away yet though.

[Phoon]

I thought the RAF had 53 Tranche 1 Typhoon's, rather than the 24 being mentioned here?

What happened to the other 29?

In terms of the UK QRA, AM Bagwell said it has not yet been decided where the T1 Typhoons will be based but he did note that from a support perspective it would make sense that they should all be at one location.

This bit is the important bit I feel. If they want to place all Tranche 1 aircraft as dedicated QRA aircraft in one location, then perhaps 'QRA North' and 'QRA South' will be centralised. Coupled with the fact that they also want these Typhoon's to perform the role of 'Red Air Aggressors', it would make sense for them to operate out of RAF Leeming. There will have to be some groundwork on base for them to operate Typhoon's full time, but to me this is looking like the most likely outcome.

it would indeed make 'sense' as some in the RAF were also keen to bridge the 'gap'' between Lossiemouth and Coningsby for QRA stationing, but we all know those who make decisions rarely do 'sense'. Latest rumour, and I stress it is only a rumour is one sdn to Lossiemouth (pretty much nailed on) and the other to Coningsby with the BBMF maybe relocating to Scampton. The RAF will not be keen to establish another Typhoon operating base.

[Unknown74]

Hi alanp, What do the Army use the South Side HAS Area for at Leuchars? They could quite easily pop a Squadron of Typhoons in there. Infact do the Army use the old Treble One/ 1 Sqdn Area at all?

[balamorybuzzed]

It is a current flying "Station", hence the moniker Leuchars Station. The former 1(F)Sqn HAS site is used exclusively for flying operations from visiting or diverted aircraft. The simplest solution is to move the 2 squadrons back in there, already has the infrastructure. Say no more.

[the concerned]

How much longer will the tornado ocu sqn be based at coningsby couldn't that be relocated to marham creating more space

[Steven]

eh? The Tornado OCU is with XV Squadron at Lossie? Unless you mean 41(R) Test & Evaluation Squadron...but they have four Tornado's and a similar number of Typhoons so they're not taking up too much room i wouldn't have thought.

[Dazza37]

How much longer will the tornado ocu sqn be based at coningsby couldn't that be relocated to marham creating more space

The Tornado OCU, XV(R), isn't at Coningsby, it's at Lossiemouth. The only Tornados at Coningsby are with 41(R) TES and they only have around three anyway, so relocating them would make minimal difference...

-Dazza

[Dazza37]

Ah, crossed replies with, Steven!

-Dazza

[Amp]

Somewhat unlikely but what a shame Wattisham has not been mentioned.
Alternate Honington ...
Both are not averse to fast jets, okay, not very recent so might upset neighbours and require large refurb expense...

[Agent K]

But you'd never open up a new airfield in effect when you still have capacity at others that are already active and suitable for the role. For example, Leeming was rebuilt for 3 x F3 Squadrons, but currently operates 1 x Hawk Squadron and is still a fully active base able to operate fast jets.

[TankBuster]

Somewhat unlikely but what a shame Wattisham has not been mentioned.
Alternate Honington ...
Both are not averse to fast jets, okay, not very recent so might upset neighbours and require large refurb expense...

I agree. Wattisham would be an excellent location for a southern QRA. Especially considering its close proximity to the civil flight paths going in and out of London. As its an active base already, then surely it wouldn't take much work to accommodate Typhoons in there?

If they can set up Typhoon bases overseas in theatre, then surely its a piece of cake setting another one up on home soil?

Looking at a map of the UK I think that the best locations for air defence squadrons would be...
Northern QRA Leuchars.
Southern QRA Wattisham.

TankBuster.