Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

[baz1]

just going of topic when cast my mind be to the Boscombe Down mystery all those years ago that was hushed up.

[bandits]

Hi All,

We have learned from an RAF source that checks were carried out to identify the Harrier(s) with the Scottish Air Traffic Control Centre (Military) (ScATTC Mil) at Prestwick. We don't know the results, though.

It's a tiny snippet of non-Earth-shattering information, but it might jog someone's memory or prompt someone to reminisce about their time there. Does anyone know anyone who served there in 1990 who remembers the incident?

An ScATCC pamphlet from 1980 may also be found here: https://atchistory.files.wordpress.c...eanic-accs.pdf

I'll have more in the next few weeks, but that's all for now.

Cheers.

[bandits]

Hello.

We were recently told by a legal source that an American or Anglo-American "air pad", which we understand to have been an AM2-matting-style "expeditionary airfield" was operational at or near Glen Tilt in 1990 and was supporting AV-8Bs, aka Harriers.

There's what appears to be a simple turf airstrip at Blair Atholl, for example, not 5 miles from Calvine, that's over 300m/1,000ft long, with hangars, equipment, etc. One might imagine that being overlaid with matting, for example.

Elsewhere, https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/san-carlos-fob/ says:

"A little known aspect of the air war over the Falkland Islands in 1982 was the use of an austere Forward Operating Base (FOB) at San Carlos for Harriers and helicopters. The design of the Harrier was predicated on operating away from large airbases and in austere operating bases that made use of rapidly laid runways, supermarket car parks and roads. The dispersed operating concept for RAF Harriers was by 1982, both firmly established and well practised. 300m runways and 7 square metre vertical landing pads were the norm for such."

Q1a. Does anyone know if bases of that type were ever used in Scotland in 1990?

Q1b. How quickly could a temporary runway or airpad be constructed? It looks, from the videos on YT, like a relatively simple task, especially if the land itself is already relatively flat.

We're interested because the occasional suggestion that the "Harrier" in the Calvine photo was actually American (i.e. an AV-8B) was often dismissed out of hand by many people because it was supposedly a violation of Occam's Razor ("You're making this more complicated than it should be if it's a true story").

We were recently told by another military source that the craft in the photo WAS, indeed, an AV-8B, though. And that in another of the 6 photos, which no one has seen publicly but which is referred to in the loose memo from 1990 in TNA's files, that a second jet on-site was a British Harrier.

Q2. Can we also read anything into this having allegedly been seen on a weekend, i.e. Saturday is a no low-flying day, so there's nothing to run into the diamond and the jets?

Q3. Would there hence be a need for a NOTAM for a top-secret craft appearing just the once on a non-permanent airbase?

Thank you.

[Malcolm]

When the Sea Harrier was first introduced in 1979, it made an appearance on a BBC TV program called "Pebble Mill at One". For that they laid some matting in the grounds of the BBC studios at Pebble Mill in Birmingham, and a 700A NAS aircraft landed live on the program. You can see the matting in the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kENp24J8XM

However, as you've been told on PPRUNE, whilst a Harrier can land and take off vertically when required, it can only do so when it's relatively light - meaning not much fuel on board. It was much more usual for Harriers to do normal rolling takeoffs, and shorter "Rolling Vertical Landings" (RVL's). The take offs would need perhaps 1000-2000 feet of 'runway'. The RVL's perhaps 500 feet. The runway could be any reasonably firm surface - I've seen Harriers land and take off from grass strips (they did so at several Middle Wallop Open days in the 1980's).

One of the supposed reasons for retiring the Sea Harriers in 2005 was that in hot climates (like the Adriatic/Med/Gulf) the SHAR struggled to land vertically back on the carrier whilst still carrying it's full load of AMRAAM missiles. The Engine didn't have enough puff to support the weight in hot air. That meant that on occasions the (very expensive) missiles would have to be jettisoned (if they hadn't been fired) before the plane could land back safely. So as you can see, the early Harriers vertical performance was marginal at best.

[bandits]

Thanks, Malcolm.

The grass strip observation is very interesting.

That's a textbook landing in the video, for sure!

As a side note, I only post here and on PPRuNe as I thought many viewers here might not be users there. If it's the case, though, that basically every viewer is a member of both, I'll save the effort!

Cheers

[Vulture 01]

According to his book, Commander Sharkey Ward flew the Pebble Mill flight.

[Malcolm]

As a side note, I only post here and on PPRuNe as I thought many viewers here might not be users there. If it's the case, though, that basically every viewer is a member of both, I'll save the effort!
Cheers

Not many members here will be members of the Mil board on PPRUNE. PPRUNE is basically for ex-forces peeps, whereas here we're mainly enthusiasts/spotters/toggers/anoraks. So whilst there are ex-forces enthusiasts who may be members of both, I'd guess that most here are not (ex-forces). That doesn't stop us reading the threads on PPRUNE though, and there is some very interesting stuff straight from the horses mouth there.

[raptor9]

Never been Military, but I am a member on Pprune, and allowed to post there. I suspect that quite a few of us are on both, as we are interested in Civil as well as Military.

[Vulture 01]

PPrune is open to anyone who registers. I've been a member there for years, despite on ever having been a VR(T) officer some while ago.
Try it as here is always something interesting to read.

[AyrForce1]

More about this in today's DM for anyone interested:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ogram.html

[stuie492]

The jet in the back ground looks like a hunter.

[red leader]

Yes it does look a lot less like a hunter.
A fascinating story. Thanks for posting.

[red leader]

Excuse the typo. I meant to say it does look a lot like a hunter.

[Alternative 4]

I was posting about this on reddit and my initial thought was a hunter. In this version of the photo it almost looks like an F-4 to me.

https://i.redd.it/1brivwscwjh91.jpg

A question for you all, the fence in that photo looks like an RAF security fence, does that location look familiar to anyone? If the photo was taken outside an RAF base, then it wasn't taken where it was supposedly taken and is likely a fake.

Wikipedia suggests a Harrier Pilot saw the object, looking at RAF Wittering the fence looks similar as do the hills in the background.

As much as I want to believe aliens are visiting earth, the fence in this photo throws me off.

[tm74sqn]

I often see UFOs, but SpecSavers will hopefully sort me!

[gyvespa]

I’m no fencer but for security shouldn’t the uppermost bit be barbed or razor wire ?
The middle/lower run clearly is.

The clumps on the top wire look a bit like the hair that cattle/horses/sheep leave when they hang their heads over which would also explain why this top wire is not barbed. But that would also mean a shorter fence (or taller animals).

The bush in the bottom left also appears remarkably close to the fence whereas the tree that is at the top of the picture looks about right if there is a border around the base.
Just random thoughts on a sunny day.

[blakey]

I’m no fencer but for security shouldn’t the uppermost bit be barbed or razor wire ?
The middle/lower run clearly is.

The clumps on the top wire look a bit like the hair that cattle/horses/sheep leave when they hang their heads over which would also explain why this top wire is not barbed. But that would also mean a shorter fence (or taller animals).

The bush in the bottom left also appears remarkably close to the fence whereas the tree that is at the top of the picture looks about right if there is a border around the base.
Just random thoughts on a sunny day.

The photo was taken nowhere near a military base

[gyvespa]

I never said it was

‘A question for you all, the fence in that photo looks like an RAF security fence’

Just answering a previous post.
I included myself in ‘all’ and I don’t really think it is a base fence either.

[Johnny]

It's on the unexplained with Howard hughes for anyone interested in a listen
"Special - Dr David Clarke, Calvine Interview" https://theunexplained.tv/episodes/spec ... -interview

[Alternative 4]

I never said it was

‘A question for you all, the fence in that photo looks like an RAF security fence’

Just answering a previous post.
I included myself in ‘all’ and I don’t really think it is a base fence either.

Thanks for the reply. If people here don' t think it's a base fence then it most likely isn't.

Often with UFO photo's a process of elimination is required and all avenues explored to see if the photo is "real". I have an interest in the subject and wish the photo was real, but the number of people who have accepted it without much scrutiny makes me a little skeptical.