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Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

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bandits
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Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by bandits » Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:28 am

​​​​​​I'm a researcher assisting Dr David Clarke of Sheffield Hallam University.

On or around 4th August 1990, an unidentified, "diamond-shaped" aircraft was allegedly photographed flying beside a Harrier jump jet near Calvine, Scotland, having possibly used the Machrihanish U.S. air base. (Some files/images may be found here: https://app.box.com/s/k46dnvkl84vbsvibhf028sgvy9nje30b)

The negatives were passed to the Daily Record newspaper (Scotland’s biggest tabloid at the time) which quickly handed them to the Ministry of Defence. After being twice interviewed by the military, the photographer (likely a deer poacher) has never again come forward and his identity is unknown, the negatives have never been located (and have likely been destroyed), and the newspaper itself never ran the story (likely because the Daily Record's editor in 1990 was himself a member of what today is known as the Defence and Security Media Advisory Committee, the body which issues "do not publish" notices to the media).

The MoD conducted at least 2 investigations into the photos in both 1990 and 1992. Declassified letters written on 18th and 22nd December 1992 by the British Air Attaché in Washington D.C. state that the UK's Defence Intelligence Staff contacted the DIA & CIA, ‘to ask if the United States had anything flying off Machrihanish,’ and that the best of the 6 photos was to be taken to the USA in January 1993, ‘so that both intelligence communities can look at it together.'

Two witnesses have independently confirmed that a copy of the best of the 6 photos was blown-up to poster size and pinned to the wall in the Secretariat Air Staff office for several years in the early 1990s, but that a positive declaration of the craft’s identity was never made.

Twelve former RAF Harrier pilots from the period in question have also told us that they never heard of this incident during their careers, and that tallies with our belief that the Harrier was itself American and flying from Machrihanish.

The case files that the MoD saw fit to preserve and release are very limited and highly disorganised. They contain no negatives, no photos, no vu-foils (transparent film for use in projectors, used in photogrammetry), and no analysis reports related to this case, all of which are known to have existed. What they do contain is a very low-resolution scan of a fax of a photocopy of part of just 1 of the 6 photos, plus a couple of pages of heavily redacted “minutes”. Moreover, in January 2020, the MoD contacted The National Archives and successfully arranged for the redactions in the file to remain in place until 2076.

If anyone therefore has any relevant information on this matter, Dr Clarke and I would be very grateful to hear from you.

Thank you.

(I did put this in the general chat, but I think it might fit better here.)

Supra
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by Supra » Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:55 pm

Sounds like one for Mulder & Scully to me? Whilst recreational drugs were not so prevalent back in the day, plentiful supplies of 'firewater' could be accessed.....just sayin! ;)
Seriously though, no serving or retired RAF Harrier Pilot is gonna 'fess-up' to flying alongside an Alien craft at anytime soon due to that little issue of the OSA! If indeed such an event did occur the 'diamond shaped aircraft' would've most likely have been a Lockheed F-117A, which had been flying in clandestine development since 1981. Prior to that a top-secret project began in 1975 with a model called the "Hopeless Diamond". During the program's early years, from 1984 to mid-1992, the F-117A fleet was based at Tonopah Test Range Airport, Nevada, where it served under the 4450th Tactical Group. Because the F-117 was highly classified during this time little or nothing was known to the outside world. From 1984 through to its 'retirement' on 22nd April 2008 when the operational aircraft returned from Holloman AFB. NM. to Tonopah in seven waves from 13 March 2007 until the last wave's arrival in April 2008. The retirement was in fact "Type 1000" storage, which is why a few examples have still been seen flying recently in daylight hours in the USA.! :D :ninja: :halo:

AyrForce1
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by AyrForce1 » Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:14 pm

Supra wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:55 pm
Sounds like one for Mulder & Scully to me?
If indeed such an event did occur the 'diamond shaped aircraft' would've most likely have been a Lockheed F-117A
F117?

Hmmm.... Mulder & Scully might be more apt than you think.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scot ... h-22824456

page_verify
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by page_verify » Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:46 pm

Iraq invaded Kuwait on 2nd August 1990 and the US started sending forces to defend Saudi Arabia very shortly afterwards. It wouldn't be unheard of for a country to allow a close ally to use one of its discretely placed bases to help them forward deploy things. It also wouldn't surprise me if the US had a prototype strategic reconnaissance platform that it wanted to get from the US to the Middle East without being seen. Finally, it wouldn't surprise me if very few people knew that such arrangements were made, often made without proper authorisation, and that there was either a damage limitation or political coverup when word got out.

USMC Harriers at Machrihanish are possible given the base's role at that time and the confusion the world's military was in right then.

Finally, the National Archives has an explanation as to why that file hasn't been released. Most redactions are to remove personal information or politically embarrassing information.....

Alf
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by Alf » Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:53 pm

Supra wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:55 pm
Sounds like one for Mulder & Scully to me? Whilst recreational drugs were not so prevalent back in the day, plentiful supplies of 'firewater' could be accessed.....just sayin! ;)
Seriously though, no serving or retired RAF Harrier Pilot is gonna 'fess-up' to flying alongside an Alien craft at anytime soon due to that little issue of the OSA! If indeed such an event did occur the 'diamond shaped aircraft' would've most likely have been a Lockheed F-117A, which had been flying in clandestine development since 1981. Prior to that a top-secret project began in 1975 with a model called the "Hopeless Diamond". During the program's early years, from 1984 to mid-1992, the F-117A fleet was based at Tonopah Test Range Airport, Nevada, where it served under the 4450th Tactical Group. Because the F-117 was highly classified during this time little or nothing was known to the outside world. From 1984 through to its 'retirement' on 22nd April 2008 when the operational aircraft returned from Holloman AFB. NM. to Tonopah in seven waves from 13 March 2007 until the last wave's arrival in April 2008. The retirement was in fact "Type 1000" storage, which is why a few examples have still been seen flying recently in daylight hours in the USA.! :D :ninja: :halo:
Thought "Hopeless Diamond" was just a nickname, the official name being "Have Blue"?

Proteus
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by Proteus » Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:30 pm

It was always rumoured that the”Aurora” used Machrihanish in that time frame as an abort strip.

quid21
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by quid21 » Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:55 pm

Turned out Aurora was a codename for B-2 funding. Not some secretive covert black jet in the shadows.

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cat1
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by cat1 » Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:49 pm

Supra wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:55 pm
If indeed such an event did occur the 'diamond shaped aircraft' would've most likely have been a Lockheed F-117A
My thought exactly :thumb:
Cheap cameras aren't good. Good cameras aren't cheap

page_verify
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by page_verify » Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:53 am

And if the US had deployed an F-117 using a C-5 then they could easily have flown some chase fighters in with it that may well have looked to many like Harriers.

I’d be hunting down C-5 movements for that period.

baz1
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by baz1 » Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:20 am

i know there as been an F-117 over the UK long before the very first one put in an appearance at Waddington Airshow.
Comfortably Numb

moonstone_laura
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by moonstone_laura » Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:13 am

There is a mention of this event in AURORA: THE PENTAGON'S SECRET HYPERSONIC SPYPLANE by Bill Sweetman (Motorbooks, 1993). However, Aurora has now been largely discredited so (as other posters have noted) an F-117 seems the most likely bet.

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22A
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by 22A » Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:31 pm

This incident was featured in a TV documentary. The photo was examined at Jaric where a senior photo interpreter announced "It's not one of ours, nor one of theirs. It's from elsewhere".
A blow up of that photo was on a wall in Jaric until it disappeared overnight and no one admits to knowing what happened to it.

Alf
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by Alf » Sat Feb 05, 2022 1:00 pm

baz1 wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:20 am
i know there as been an F-117 over the UK long before the very first one put in an appearance at Waddington Airshow.
The Waddington show F-117A was 1995, there was one at Mildenhall show 3 years before in 1992 which I think was the first public UK appearance.

gyvespa
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by gyvespa » Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:50 pm

During the mid 80’s I was very ‘friendly’ with an very attractive girl who had an equally attractive sister. Sisters boyfriend, who I never did meet, was an American Airman based at Mildenhall.

One Monday I asked my friend what she’d been up to at the weekend. She replied that sister’s boyfriend had taken them both to a party then a tour of the base. I asked if it had been interesting and she said not really but he’d taken them to one of the hangars and they got to look in at something quite odd looking, I asked what she meant but she couldn’t really describe it.
I said to her that it was probably the Blackbird and she replied ‘no we saw that as well,
this was a really odd looking thing’. I never did find out what it was and she wasn’t much help, had no interest in aircraft whatsoever. It could have been something mundane but I can’t think of many planes that fit her description.
I still have no idea what it was and I haven’t seen her for years and in all honesty she was a bit out of my league as they say.

That’s it.

bandits
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by bandits » Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:55 pm

Thank you all for replying.

We understand about the F-117, but we have reasons to doubt this as an explanation.

In early 1988, a military journal correctly revealed that the American stealth aircraft was designated the F-117 Nighthawk. On 10 November 1988, the Pentagon formally issued a press release that outlined the history of the F-117, and issued an ambiguous photograph of the aircraft. The aircraft was not displayed to the public until April 1990, when a pair of F-117s put on a show for the press. After that time, F-117s began to appear at airshows. The Calvine sighting was in August 1990.

We appreciate, too, the proximity of the date of the alleged sighting to the start of the Gulf War, but we're also sceptical as to why in August 1990, with war in the offing, such secrecy would be required with regard to an aircraft that had been publicly announced some 4 months earlier.

Lastly, in the "loose minute" in the National Archives, it is stated that defence intelligence reached no definitive conclusion regarding the diamond-shaped object. Now, of course, that claim could be a lie, but it just strikes us as odd that this would be the case if all the MoD was doing was hiding the identity of the F-117, a craft which everyone knew existed.

A mystery indeed!

bandits
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by bandits » Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:58 pm

Oh, in addition, declassified letters from the British air attaché in D.C. from 1992, show that Defence Intelligence took the photos to the USA in January 1993 in order to review them alongside the CIA and/or DIA.

Why bother if all they showed was the F-117?

Vulture 01
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by Vulture 01 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:29 pm

When the US started deploying aircraft for Desert Shield, the whole Tonopah wing of F117's went through a base on the east coast prior to going to the sandbox.
Pictures can be found in most books about the build up and subsequent war.

Over time there have been countless rumours of secret aircraft deployed to Macrihanish, yet not a single photograph has surface as far as I know.
If (big,big if) it happened where is the evidence?

Malcolm
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:11 pm

First of all, I don't believe a word of it. What fool would fly a still secret stealth aircraft up a valley close to the A9, on a Saturday, in daylight? That risked been seen by thousands of car drivers. RAF/RN Harriers weren't based in Scotland, and even if they were visiting Leuchars/Lossie they wouldn't have been tasked to intercept an unknown - unless they just happened to be in the area. But on a Saturday? And to be tasked by ATC would mean ATC was aware of the UFO, which means it was visible on radar - would have thought a QRA launch from Leuchars was more likely in that case. RAF Harriers never had an air to air radar, so finding a UFO would have to be done by eye. RN Sea Harriers did have a radar, but the FRS1 wasn't very good against low fliers, and the FA2 didn't come in till 1993.

However, one thing that always raised questions in my mind was Coronet Gun. This was the deployment of 12 A-10's of the 75TFS/23TFW to Sculthorpe on Friday Aug 3rd 1990. This was after the invasion of Kuwait, but before the major build up of US forces had started. I think most of us expected these aircraft to continue on down to the sand pit during/after the deployment. But no, they went home to the USA on 27th Aug. Also strange was that most TAC deployments lasted 4 weeks, but this one only lasted 3. 23TFW had 'hosted' the F-117's after the Panama raids in June 1990 - the first known operating of the type outside Nevada.
http://www.f-117a.com/Englandafb90.html

As it happens I was driving up to a wedding in Scotland (Thurso) on Aug 3rd, via Leeming, Lossie and Kinloss as you do, obviously :P. Memory is it was scorchio in England, but started to rain as I approached Hadrians wall. I don't think I went to Leuchars (too far out of the way), and I don't remember seeing any Harriers at Lossie or Kinloss. Anyway, Somewhere close to Edinburgh the radio bust into life as the two cells of A-10's and their tankers passed overhead - in the cloud. I can't remember if we knew they were coming at the time or not - I think we did but since I had to be in John-O-Groats the next day not much I could do to be there.

So if I were into conspiracy theories, I could construct a scenario whereby a normal Coronet deployment was used to disguise the dragging of one or two extra 'friends' across the Atlantic who might drop out of the formation over Scotland and go to an out of the way location where they wouldn't be seen. Now normally A-10's fly slow and low, so you wouldn't try to sneak a fast/high flying thing in like that, but since we don't know what the UFO was we don't know its flight characteristics.

Do I believe any of that? Nope. But if I were writing a spy thriller it's a bit more convincing than most other scenarios. Hang on there is a black van outside with men in dark sun glasses getting out....

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cat1
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by cat1 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:37 pm

Im despratley trying to stop my self thinking
'this is just total bs'

but that would just be disrspectfull.....would it??? :ninja:
Cheap cameras aren't good. Good cameras aren't cheap

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cat1
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Re: Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Post by cat1 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:37 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:11 pm
Hang on there is a black van outside with men in dark sun glasses getting out....
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Cheap cameras aren't good. Good cameras aren't cheap

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