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UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

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eagle driver
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by eagle driver » Sun May 29, 2022 3:23 pm

He is right but the MOD never were any good at making the right decisions
F35Bs ,Retiring the Harriers , to name but only two
Bean counters do not care if it makes sense just as long as they on paper justify there jobs.
Last edited by eagle driver on Sun May 29, 2022 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fighterfoto
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Fighterfoto » Sun May 29, 2022 3:44 pm

Whilst Government sets the budget it’s the RAF who made the decision to retire C-130, not the bean counters.
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Agent K
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Agent K » Sun May 29, 2022 4:12 pm

eagle driver wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 3:23 pm
He is right but the MOD never where any good at making the right decisions
F35Bs ,Retiring the Harriers , to name but only two
Bean counters do not care if it makes sense just as long as they on paper justify there jobs.
Whether you like it or not, budgets are budgets and they have to be adhered too, blame the government for reducing defence spending not those who have to implement the decisions…

btw it’s “were” and “their”

Vulcanone
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Vulcanone » Sun May 29, 2022 5:55 pm

I suppose it's already a done deal in retirement. But maybe hope springs and the decision to retire them in 2023 gains a stay of execution. Which also makes you wonder what if any reprieve the Tranche 1 Typhoons may get .......

Don't expect any changes to be honest.... But The Ukraine situation should be a wakey wakey call

roger4
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by roger4 » Sun May 29, 2022 6:49 pm

Agent K wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 4:12 pm
eagle driver wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 3:23 pm
He is right but the MOD never where any good at making the right decisions
F35Bs ,Retiring the Harriers , to name but only two
Bean counters do not care if it makes sense just as long as they on paper justify there jobs.
Whether you like it or not, budgets are budgets and they have to be adhered too, blame the government for reducing defence spending not those who have to implement the decisions…

btw it’s “were” and “their”
UK defence spending has increased each year since 2016, by between 2.4% and 5% per annum, i.e. ahead of inflation. So there have not been cuts.

Mind you, 2023 might be a very different matter, with inflation up near 10%.

Agent K
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Agent K » Sun May 29, 2022 8:48 pm

roger4 wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 6:49 pm

UK defence spending has increased each year since 2016, by between 2.4% and 5% per annum, i.e. ahead of inflation. So there have not been cuts.

Mind you, 2023 might be a very different matter, with inflation up near 10%.
Well there have been cuts to both strength and size, not sure why the arbitrary year of 2016 means there haven’t been cuts? it’s a case of death by a thousand cuts isn’t it, there’s no way a minor increase in the past 6 years will address cuts of the decades previously. I only have to look at, for example the 100k + strength of the RAF I saw as a child, and the ability to generate hundreds of combat aircraft, compared to the RAF now that can barely half fill Wembley stadium and struggle to generate 100 combat aircraft.

.... and yes, wouldn't a 9 - 10% inflation linked rise be useful!

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cat1
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by cat1 » Mon May 30, 2022 8:36 am

Why c130s?
There are plenty of **** aircraft for the RAF to get rid of
Like the......umm.....
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toom317
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by toom317 » Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 am

cat1 wrote:
Mon May 30, 2022 8:36 am
Why c130s?
There are plenty of **** aircraft for the RAF to get rid of
Like the......umm.....
Please, enlighten us.
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Sparts99
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Sparts99 » Mon May 30, 2022 12:20 pm

Like the Harrier and Nimrod it's an easy admin and financial task to remove a single type completely rather than an overall reduction across the board, if you have five or fifty of a type there are fixed costs irrespective of fleet size. The article does make some very good points and removing the Hercules fleet does go against some of the governments stated aims. As ever a huge amount of (our) money spent on life extension then almost immediately announcing the type's retirement.
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roger4
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by roger4 » Tue May 31, 2022 7:53 pm

Agent K wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 8:48 pm
roger4 wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 6:49 pm

UK defence spending has increased each year since 2016, by between 2.4% and 5% per annum, i.e. ahead of inflation. So there have not been cuts.

Mind you, 2023 might be a very different matter, with inflation up near 10%.
Well there have been cuts to both strength and size, not sure why the arbitrary year of 2016 means there haven’t been cuts? it’s a case of death by a thousand cuts isn’t it, there’s no way a minor increase in the past 6 years will address cuts of the decades previously. I only have to look at, for example the 100k + strength of the RAF I saw as a child, and the ability to generate hundreds of combat aircraft, compared to the RAF now that can barely half fill Wembley stadium and struggle to generate 100 combat aircraft.

.... and yes, wouldn't a 9 - 10% inflation linked rise be useful!
I used the figures from 2016 onwards as (a) these were the years detailed in the latest House of Commons Library research report on defence spending, and (b) the decision to withdraw the Hercs was made in 2021, i.e. within this period. Hence in my opinion, the suggestion that the withdraw is due to defence cuts is clearly wrong.

Of course it is true that the spending and size of the force has drastically reduced since decades ago, but the difference in say the last 50 years between "then and now" in almost every walk of life has changed beyond recognition. The military isn't immune to those changes.

Col Nago
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Col Nago » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:27 pm

‘We need to reconsider the F35 and the C-130’ said ex MoD Government Minister Tobias Elwood on todays World at One on Radio 4 when discussing the request to ramp up military spending.

Drinkmat
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Drinkmat » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:40 pm

The Parachute Regiment confirmed only last week, in reply to a question on Twitter, that the RAF A400 aircraft cannot launch static line paratroops from the side doors of the aircraft as yet. They said the Dutch & Germans can, but the MOD hasn't yet conducted trials to give UK forces clearances from our own aircraft. Apparently trials are scheduled for side door exits. Free-fallers can already go off the lowered ramp.

Cyberfox
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Cyberfox » Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:59 pm

Col Nago wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:27 pm
‘We need to reconsider the F35 and the C-130’ said ex MoD Government Minister Tobias Elwood on todays World at One on Radio 4 when discussing the request to ramp up military spending.
Indeed, but I bet they don’t. We’ll just rely on the Americans as usual.

Would be good if the RAF bought more transports and a few squadrons of off the shelf F/A-18s or F-16s, but that definitely won’t happen despite Boris’s bluster about increasing spending.

POL
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by POL » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:03 pm

What are we going to do with F-16 and F-18s when all our allies will be in a networked 5th Generation battlespace?

It's like trying to join a conversation when all your mates are on the phone and you're there with a cup and string.

You're talking as much sense as Elwood, and that is very little.

Philly1971
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Philly1971 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:39 pm

Plenty of others are still buying 4th generation jets. Hasn’t Germany and Spain committed to more Typhoons? We won’t increase our front line fighters, but if we did, surely it would be either the latest tranche of the Typhoon, or more F35,s? More likely perhaps we could speed up the Typhoon radar upgrade and bring forward the integration of the Meteor missile for the F35?

Agent K
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Agent K » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:47 pm

Cyberfox wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:59 pm
Col Nago wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:27 pm
‘We need to reconsider the F35 and the C-130’ said ex MoD Government Minister Tobias Elwood on todays World at One on Radio 4 when discussing the request to ramp up military spending.
Indeed, but I bet they don’t. We’ll just rely on the Americans as usual.

Would be good if the RAF bought more transports and a few squadrons of off the shelf F/A-18s or F-16s, but that definitely won’t happen despite Boris’s bluster about increasing spending.
Why???? Why on earth would you buy OTS F16/18’s with all the extra costs for running a new fleet when you can get newer and more capable Typhoon or F35 aircraft.

Malcolm
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:35 pm

Philly1971 wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:39 pm
..... and bring forward the integration of the Meteor missile for the F35?
"We" can't do that. The integration of weapons is controlled by Lockheed Martin, and there is a waiting list of things to do, with priorities governed by US-DOD.

Similar problems also exist with Typhoon. You basically have to get Eurofighter/NETMA to agree to integrate a new weapon. The UK/BAe can't do it on their own.

verreli
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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by verreli » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:35 pm
The UK/BAe can't do it on their own.
Roll on Tempest. Perhaps the MoD are learning?

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Re: UK Should Reconsider C-130J Retirement

Post by gnirtS » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:20 am

C130s can land on things A400s can't.
Atlas is useful but isn't a full C130 replacement. There are capability gaps, some of which can't be fixed.

Then again we're a mess. AESA much needed Typhoon upgrade maybe 2028 at best.
Meteor on F35.
Navy lacking useful ASMs.

We have a mix of aircraft, none of which can really employ every system they need to.

Rather than more limited F35Bs we maybe better focusing on upgrading Typhoon and it's systems.
Maybe a few F35A if they insist on still using the pork barrel.

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