Bristow win the SAR contract, Sikorsky S-92 and AW189

[DJS]

Evening,
the Sea King is long in the tooth but surely a mis-type at 70 years of service.

DJS

[Gary]

Don't envy the person who has the responsibility of handing the future king his P45

[Thunder]

Evening,
the Sea King is long in the tooth but surely a mis-type at 70 years of service.

DJS

Just poor journalism, they obviously saw the "70 years of life saving" inscription on the side of the Sea King in the picture they used and assumed the rest.

The 70 years was the formation of the RAF SAR Force back in 1941 which in turn celebrated 70 years in 2011.

[RichC]

Don't envy the person who has the responsibility of handing the future king his P45

I can see him moving onto a larger SH..... as he was before he went to SK

[Chough]

Lots of changes, locals will welcome having two S-92s at Newquay - but what is the likely future for 771 Sq down at Culdrose ?

[Snoop 95]

Is the livery dictated by the terms of the contract or can they paint their aircraft as they wish? The universal 'Coastguard' livery would seem appropriate. I understand that bristow already operates SAR services in other European countries, so whatpaint scheme do they use there?

[Thunder]

I thought that the crews where to remain HM forces personnel or has that now been changed?

Operating from Inverness and Prestwick? I thought they were to continue from Lossiemouth with Prestwick moving to new facilities at Glasgow and it will interesting to see if the AW189 will be able to operate in the Scottish Mountains at night and bad weather.

Looks like the contract requirements have been changed to suit Bristows more than SAR requirements and certainly from what was awarded to Soteria

At first I did think this was the way ahead but after reading the outlines of the contract I have serious doubts

[TankBuster]

I will certainly miss the big yellow Sea Kings! The new S&R helo's look like the ones that currently fly the workers out to the oil rigs!

Will there be any based in East Anglia, at Wattisham perhaps?

TankBuster

[Thunder]

The S92's are more than capable. The Coastguard regularly come into my work with them and the crews speak very highly of it, the AW189 on the other hand ok for inshore rescue/medical evac but anything else ??

[Gary]

Tankerbuster

According to the BBC no Manston will take over from Wattisham


SAR base changes

Culdrose - SAR operation moves to Newquay
Wattisham - moves to Manston
Valley - moves to Caernarfon
Boulmer - SAR operation ending
Portland - Closing
Lee-on-the-Solent - not moving
Chivenor - moves to St Athan
Leconfield - moves to Humberside
Lossiemouth - moves to Inverness
Prestwick - not moving
Other new bases added

Full info and story can be found on the BBC News website

[Doughnut]

The contract with Bristow will allow new equipment to bought into service. Some of the current SAR crews will find work with the new civillian company either by applying for the job or direct transfer. The problem will be years ahead when the RAF/RN trained pilots and winch men are no longer available. Who will train the next generation ? Would doubt Bristows will have a training school turning out new crews.

[RichC]

So we have:-
2 x S92 at Newquay
2 x S92 at Caernarfon
2 x S92 at Humberside
2 x S92 at Stornoway
2 x S92 at Sumburgh

2 x AW189 at Lee-on-Solent
2 x AW189 at Manston
2 x AW189 at St Athan
2 x AW189 at Prestwick
2 x AW189 at Inverness

Plus of course
1 x Super Puma at Miller Platform (Jigsaw project)
1 x Super Puma at Sumburgh (Jigsaw project)

Map i just did showing it visually...


Nicely spread out in my opinion.

As for the AW189, its a big step up from the currently operated AW139 at Portland and Lee on Solent. The AW189 is much larger (Super Puma size), more fuel and carries more casualties. It is hardly an inshore helicopter considering the smaller AW139 is being used for offshore operations by CHC and Bristow already. It is being classed as an 8 tonne "Long Range SAR" platform.
"AW189 ideally suited to the safest Offshore deep water operations with the lowest operational costs. Next Generation avionics expands further operational capabilities, contributing to safety by enhancing situational awareness and reducing crew workload. "

[Unknown74]

Sure hope we see some Navy or RAF Sea Kings in Museums, have heard Cosford is supposed to recieve one, sure hope the likes of Hendon, Sunderland, East Fortune get one.

[POL]

the AW189 on the other hand ok for inshore rescue/medical evac but anything else ??

What's the issue with the 189? Fully IFR capable, twin-engine, 8-tonne helicopter, vs. the S-92, a fully IFR capable, twin-engine, 12-tonne helicopter?

[POL]

Cheaper for civilian company to operate from civilian field than it is from an RAF/RN field.

[Dunk]

the AW189 on the other hand ok for inshore rescue/medical evac but anything else ??

What's the issue with the 189? Fully IFR capable, twin-engine, 8-tonne helicopter, vs. the S-92, a fully IFR capable, twin-engine, 12-tonne helicopter?

AW189
16-18 pax
Cruise speed 144kts
range - "can reach platforms 200nm offshore and return" no factual figures given.

S-92
19-24 Pax
Cruise 153kts
Range with 19 pax no reserve 544nm

Dunk

[POL]

400nm range vs. 544nm range, it's not a massive difference, and neither really work for Atlantic ops? :\

[RichC]

You just have to look at the AW149 (Military) as the AW189 just a civilian version of that.
From AgustaWestland Brochure
"The AW149 delivers best-in-class performance, including superior hover performance, a cruise speed in excess of
150kts, a maximum range greater than 650 nm (1,200 km) and endurance of up to 5 hours."

So, what to expect from the AW189? The same, except it has slightly more (not much at all) powerful engines.
The Endurance of the AW189 is the same as the Bond Super Pumas that they have been successfully using in the North Sea for SAR operations under the Jigsaw Project. Not only that, it's endurance is pretty much the same as the Seaking in the SAR Role so it is "highly" suited to the Offshore SAR operations.

The Bristow S-92's will have the extended range fuel tanks however i believe CHC initially had issues with these in the SAR role as they are fitted internally.

For the current SAR operational radius, they are required to fly a radius of 200-230nm from the nearest fuel stop. Something the Seaking can only just manage. The Culdrose and Chivenor examples have to stop at the Scillies or Cork to do the 200+nm rescues due to 20-30mins hover time needed as well. The S-92 has proved it can do this up in the Atlantic off Scotland already several times. So there is no issue.
We have only needed to call upon the USAF three times in the last 20 years for rescues which have required a helicopter over that radius (500nm for one). And they are a backup still if needed.

The AW189's are tactically placed so they can do the closer in work but still conduct long range deep water operations if required as back up and with approx 5hrs endurance, that's no different to the Seakings and the AW189 can get on scene quicker as well.

I personally think it's a good match and capability and certainly a step up from the Seaking, as much as i love the aircraft.
The only trouble is, it's (AW189) going to be built by Westlands

[Dunk]

You just have to look at the AW149 (Military) as the AW189 just a civilian version of that.
From AgustaWestland Brochure
"The AW149 delivers best-in-class performance, including superior hover performance, a cruise speed in excess of
150kts, a maximum range greater than 650 nm (1,200 km) and endurance of up to 5 hours."

Those figures are for 12 pob - if you look at the civvy (189)version data thats available it doesnt have that range, or cruise speed.

Dunk

[TankBuster]

It appears that there will be a lot of overlapping SAR coverage on the south/south west coast, with the helos on the eastern coastline at Manston & Humber having to cover a huge area. This could mean longer waiting times before the helo arrives on scene.
Surely there should be another two stations up the east coast, one between Manston & Humber & another on the North Yorkshire coast somewhere?


TankBuster