FighterControl

Looking like some awful news up in Glasgow as a Police helicopter has crashed into and through the roof of a pub, naturally hoping for the best possible news pic.twitter.com/mnuFPinGim

Again! 1990, 2002 and 2013. All used by Strathclyde Police.

andygoole wrote:Again! 1990, 2002 and 2013. All used by Strathclyde Police.

Point being.?

Do you post a question like that every time there is a military aircraft crash?.

Brian

my thoughts go out to every body in glasgow

Seems to be more a statement of fact rather than a question, Brian...

If it ran out of fuel it'd be autorotating, so the rotors would still be turning.

Can someone merge these threads together by the way (and move them to off topic/on to CA?)

Topics merged

Marko1972 wrote:Now confirmed as 8 dead,including the 3 crew

Very, very sad news - the crew had no chance of survival.

Has anyone else noticed the iPhone footage taken outside the pub that's been on BBC News? A guy walks out of the pub with a pint of lager or cider in one hand and what looks like a large vodka & coke in the other hand?

i'm surprised how intact the building looked : if i'd seen that pic w/out the headlines i would never have guessed the building had had a copter crash into it. lack of fire damage maybe does point at running out of fuel?

Not all aircraft crashes result in a huge fireball and it's even rarer in helicopter crashes. According to several eyewitnesses the helicopter initially landed on the roof, then the roof caved in.

If you look on Google Earth at the crash site, it is very hard to make out a building on the corner as the flat asphalt roof is the same colour as the road/pavement and looks very much like open space from above, in the dark maybe that's what the pilot thought as well, doubt we'll ever know.

Very tragic and thoughts to all those involved.

wolfie138 wrote:i'm surprised how intact the building looked : if i'd seen that pic w/out the headlines i would never have guessed the building had had a copter crash into it. lack of fire damage maybe does point at running out of fuel?

It certainly didn't run out of fuel - the last 10 feet, or so, of a main rotor-blade has been showing on the news reports all day which was covered by a tarpaulin during the night. If it had run out of fuel then the helicopter would have auto-rotated to the ground and that rotor-blade would show signs of major damage.

Whatever caused it to fall out of the sky stopped the main rotors turning and it fell like a brick.

As far as fire is concerned, fuel-tanks are much, much stronger these days. It used to be common for cars to burst into flames during collisions but not now, also there's been loads of aircraft accidents during the last few years and the fuel tanks thankfully haven't split open.

Mike wrote: If it had run out of fuel then the helicopter would have auto-rotated to the ground and that rotor-blade would show signs of major damage.

i thought that only happened if you were descending fast enough to make that happen?

You can autorotate at any speed. Whether you can land it safely or not does depend on the speed, however.

At the risk of putting the AAIB out of work , it's hard not to 'notice' the blade tip shown on the media was unmarked & when recovered by crane exhibited a 'vertical' shear fracture as opposed to 'rotational' one at the other end? By contrast, the rear fenestron & casing were annihilated with not a single blade intact! Given the historic issues surrounding the Main Rotor Head you can draw your own conclusions, but one of those items was going round quite fast. We will know in good time the actual problem/cause, but for now it won't change the result. "So near, yet so far" to landing in the open street junction (which the flat roof seemed to look like part of?), a valiant effort which cruelly didn't yield the right outcome.

Supra wrote:At the risk of putting the AAIB out of work , it's hard not to 'notice' the blade tip shown on the media was unmarked & when recovered by crane exhibited a 'vertical' shear fracture as opposed to 'rotational' one at the other end? By contrast, the rear fenestron & casing were annihilated with not a single blade intact! Given the historic issues surrounding the Main Rotor Head you can draw your own conclusions, but one of those items was going round quite fast. We will know in good time the actual problem/cause, but for now it won't change the result. "So near, yet so far" to landing in the open street junction (which the flat roof seemed to look like part of?), a valiant effort which cruelly didn't yield the right outcome.

I think you are reading too much into that one! Didnt you consider that the blade had been cut off by the fire crews after the AAIB were happy it could be? I would be quite wary of some reports as to the lack of noise coming from witnesses as well. We have had a few visits from this helicopter recently on search ops and we were very surprised how quiet it was at low speed.
Arabest,
Geoff.

There is talk on Pprune, by pilots of the type (and others) that this could have been a gearbox failure or drive shaft problem, hence the no rotation of the rotors on impact, quite similar to the North Sea/Shetland incidents whereby the rotors literally stop in flight....and it falls like a brick (which was an account from one witness). But even they, who fly them everyday are speculating. Let's just wait a year and find out then. Then we'll know for sure.

No CVR, no AFDR, etc. Going to be a difficult one for AAIB, this.

As there was no fire to destroy the aircraft post crash and the fact that a vast majority of the helicopter was still intact, i would think they might find some decent clues being as knowledgeable and professional as they are.
A CVR probably wouldn't have helped if it was the issues that Pprune pilots are talking about. But as we don't know that...

Very Sad however, that it was a pilot that so many of us enjoyed watching fly on the display circuit and some of us who saw his skills elsewhere in the LFA's.

Air Accident comments here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25188043

RichC wrote:There is talk on Pprune, by pilots of the type (and others) that this could have been a gearbox failure or drive shaft problem, hence the no rotation of the rotors on impact, quite similar to the North Sea/Shetland incidents whereby the rotors literally stop in flight....and it falls like a brick (which was an account from one witness). But even they, who fly them everyday are speculating. Let's just wait a year and find out then. Then we'll know for sure.

Any similarities to recent North Sea accidents should be ignored!!! Only one was a catastrophic gearbox failure, 2 were precautionary due to indication lights and the most recent, last i looked anyway, was looking like pilot error! However, the final report is still to come.

ChrisGlobe wrote:No CVR, no AFDR, etc. Going to be a difficult one for AAIB, this.

As the AAIB have a complete airframe to sift through, this will be very easy for them to find the issue. You would be surprised what little evidence they have used in the past to meet their conclusions. And considering this is a Police helicopter, im sure the cameras would still have been rolling.

Arabest,
Geoff