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Security patrols

Please use this forum for any movements and activities to do with MOD St Athan
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D1scafellpike
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Security patrols

Post by D1scafellpike » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:42 am

I made one of my rare visits to St Athan earlier this week, parking near the bridge over the railway on the road off the B4285, and was surprised to be approached within minutes of arrival by a service security patrol who informed me that they were under instructions to pass details of anyone/vehicles parked on the road to the police. I was told that viewing the airfield with binoculars is ok but that photography is not allowed and if used, cameras would be confiscated by the police.

I'm also interested in railways and so subsequently went to wait on the bridge to photograph a train that was due. When the patrol reappeared, I was told that this location was considered a risk and that the bridge is known as "snipers bridge".

The patrol was pleasant and I spoke to them for a while, also being told that security had been increased during the last couple of months.

I just thought I'd mention this as it may be of interest to someone. I'm also curious as to whether these patrols, which I've never seen here before, are a new addition to St Athan and/or bases in general (I've not had chance to visit anywhere else so far this year).

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tazmin88
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Re: Security patrols

Post by tazmin88 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:06 am

Ignore comments re camera confiscation police have no rights to confiscate or even examine photos taken from a public place unless they have a court order . I suspect over enthusiastic security staff wanting to seem to have more powers than they actually do .
Regards Tazmin88

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britaylor
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Re: Security patrols

Post by britaylor » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:44 am

If this happen at Coningsby the serurity/police would have a field but instead come round and have a chat just see the amount of photos on this site by the spotters

nickowen
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Re: Security patrols

Post by nickowen » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:29 am

Some sound advice here:
http://phnat.org/
Download, print and carry the Bust Card.

alpha_india
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Re: Security patrols

Post by alpha_india » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:37 am

Do MGS have any status/authority outside the wire? - I didn't think their remit extended beyond the site boundary.

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D1scafellpike
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Re: Security patrols

Post by D1scafellpike » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:53 am

nickowen wrote:Some sound advice here:
http://phnat.org/
Download, print and carry the Bust Card.
Interesting link..not seen that one before.

So security guards might be accredited persons and hence have the power to take names and addresses if they suspect a crime or anti social behaviour hmmm... how do you know if they are accredited (does the id card say so ?) and whether its ok to refuse to give details (I'm assuming a crime will always be suspected ;-)]

Possibly going o/t now but are these patrols civilian and if so why do they wear what appear to be military uniforms ?

I'm guessing a camera could be seized as evidence of an offence.

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Security patrols

Post by Pen Pusher » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:05 am

tazmin88 wrote:Ignore comments re camera confiscation police have no rights to confiscate or even examine photos taken from a public place unless they have a court order . I suspect over enthusiastic security staff wanting to seem to have more powers than they actually do .
As I do quite a bit of photographing around London I carry lots of bits of paper as to what is and isn't legal to photograph so I'm a bit clued up on it.

Assuming you are on Public Land - Under Section 43 of the Terrorism Act 2000 you can be stopped and searched if the Police 'reasonably suspect you to be a terrorist'

Under Section 43 they can also view images on a camera, seize, retain camera if the Police Suspect 'it may contain evidence that you are a terrorist.'

under Section 43 the Police 'can not delete or ask you to delete digital images but can with a court order.'

Brian'

Undertaker
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Re: Security patrols

Post by Undertaker » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:54 am

Invest in some digital camera binos I think !

TT

alpha_india
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Re: Security patrols

Post by alpha_india » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:50 pm

D1scafellpike wrote:So security guards might be accredited persons and hence have the power to take names and addresses if they suspect a crime or anti social behaviour hmmm... how do you know if they are accredited (does the id card say so ?) and whether its ok to refuse to give details (I'm assuming a crime will always be suspected ;-)
The Security Industries Act made private security a regulated profession and all guards must be in possession of a Securities Industry Association license which the must produce on demand, and would normally wear publicly on an armband or clear pouch on their jacket. Acting in the capacity of a security guard without a valid SIA license or misrepresenting yourself as a security guard is a criminal offence. I wouldn't personally provide details or means of identification to a private security guard. Let them call police, or offer to do it for them if they're getting pushy, and provide identification to an officer on production of his warrant card rather than a private security guard.

I would be interested to know the state of play with MGS, as from what I can see they are MOD personnel and don't appear to be either regulated by the SIA or carry warrant cards. I can't find any powers that they hold that carry beyond the wire of MOD property. I can't even see a responsibility or entitlement to patrol beyond MOD property - as far as I can make out if the observed suspicious behaviour outside the wire from their position within the wire they'd have to call the MOD police or local police.

Undertaker
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Re: Security patrols

Post by Undertaker » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:47 am

Probably stepping up security for the forth coming Joint Warrior Excercise

TT

SCARECROW
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Re: Security patrols

Post by SCARECROW » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:45 am

If you are outside the wire they have no powers over you at all, MPGS personnel do not have any powers outside the wire either, if they suspect you have committed a crime the civ police must be called and they cannot stop you taking pictures.

venom
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Re: Security patrols

Post by venom » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:55 pm

When the police took my details at Prestwick they said I she you have a blind stick I told them I'm. Visually impaired an use binoculars to see aircraft how they laughed when I told them I Cannae keep an. Eye out. For any. Terrorists they wouldn't have been. Doing there jobs if they hadn't some to. Me but it was good banter
Colin ( visually impaired)

venom
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Re: Security patrols

Post by venom » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:57 pm

PS my blind stick is my white stick /cane

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D1scafellpike
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Re: Security patrols

Post by D1scafellpike » Fri May 08, 2015 11:37 pm

I don't know when it was changed, but I noticed last night that the South Wales Aviation Group website now mentions the patrols around St Athan and recommends not loitering around the base. It also mentions Official Secrets Act "no photgraphy" signs.

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Blackcat1
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Re: Security patrols

Post by Blackcat1 » Wed May 13, 2015 12:00 pm

Visited St Athan and parked on the bridge for Ex Joint Warrior was approached by RAF Security (friendly bunch) asked me if i had any good pics? and said im sure your not terrorists! lol, and as he was also from the south wales valleys, so we had a good chat and they moved on after taking a couple of pics of the Chinooks themselves!. 20 minutes later my Mother and i were approached by an ordinary policeman who asked us (jokingly again) "are you spying on the base!!", another nice friendly guy, so that day i was very lucky, as sometimes they can be a funny bunch!!!

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Yammer
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Re: Security patrols

Post by Yammer » Thu May 14, 2015 3:58 pm

I understand the base is home to people such as


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Fo ... port_Group

This and spotting may not go hand in hand.
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D1scafellpike
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Re: Security patrols

Post by D1scafellpike » Thu May 14, 2015 9:11 pm

Yammer wrote:I understand the base is home to people such as


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Fo ... port_Group

This and spotting may not go hand in hand.
I was recently told something similar but info wasn't so specific, so I didn't mention it. I've also been told http://www.army.mod.uk/signals/25274.aspx are moving there but I haven't been able to find anything online to corroborate this.

markymash
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Re: Security patrols

Post by markymash » Wed May 20, 2015 8:20 pm

St Athan will host 14 signals I have been informed from someone I know in the regiment. It's supposed to happen after 2018. Brawdy will then close completely as far as he knows. Also this old news story from 2013 seems to bear that out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21672681

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