81ST TFW F-4D QUESTION

[DavidT]

Re: F-4D-31-MC 66-7750
Seeking confirmation that it served with the 81st TFW.
Believe it may have been at Bentwaters July 76 to April 77 but can anyone assist with hard facts (e.g. USAF Aircraft Record Card) to verify.
Any info greatly appreciated.
Regards,
David

[plmc135]

It was definitely at some stage with the 50 TFW at Hahn, as I noted it at Alconbury on 09/11/75.

[Weazel69]

My log file shows that I first logged this A/c - 29.07.1978 - RAF LAKENHEATH whilst flying with the 480thTFS 52ndTFW SP and it was later a fms to the R.o.KOREA AF
I know this is not exactly what you were looking for but with what plmc135 posted it looks like it was used by various TFS - TFW whilst in Europe

[nugget20]

I logged 66-7750 at Alconbury on 17 Jul 77 coded SP - with a red fin flash.

[mustang5861]

'BAR' has a reference to 66-7750 being one of at least nine ex-10th TFS F-4Ds which arrived at Bentwaters from Hahn in 'late September/early October' 1976 for service with the 81st TFW.

[mushbuster]

From Forgotten Jets. (I had assumed you had this already)

McDonnell F-4D-31-MC Phantom II/66-7750
1967: USAF 433rd TFS (8th TFW).
10/24/1967: Credited with shooting down a MiG-21 over North Vietnam.
*1972: USAF 8th TFW.
1974: USAF 432nd TRW.
USAF 50th TFW.
USAF 81st TFW.
USAF 52nd TFW.
USAFR 465th TFS (507th TFG).
Georgia ANG 128th TFS.
4/1988: Transferred to the South Korean AF.

During its time in Vietnam it was named "Kayte Baby", the Mig 21 kill is credited to (latterly) Col Gaillard R Peck Jr

[Nighthawke]

Two relevant answers at last!

[DavidT]

My thanks to all who contributed info.
It all ties in with my own early records that it went 50 TFW - 81 TFW - 52 TFW.
I am aware of the Forgotten Jets site but uncertain of their information source.

Regards
David.

[Wolf51 Flt]

BARG seem to think it went HR WR SP as above
I think SEAR/WLAG think it went HR/10thTFS to SP/480thTFS
I was only just looking through this section and 67750 rang a bell with me

Late 1976+ I used to visit the bases and try to see if I could clear all USAFE F-4's at the time based in the UK and EUROPE
I visited EGVG/EGVJ that's Woodbridge/Bentwaters alot even went there the weekend after the first ones were delivered
in, they were parked in with the base flight one of them still as HR, after many visits I did not see it untill 2/4/1977 by
this time it was SP/480thTFS a 'WARHAWKS' aircraft in EGUL Lakenheath parked on the visitors ramp on the Northside
by the old control tower .I have this listed in my books as HR WR ?? SP there must be a site where you can track an
aircraft History.

If anyone Knows it I want to confirm the history of 69-7263 when it served as Weasel with the 81st TFS Yellow at EDAD/Spangdahlem BARG/WLAG/SCRAMBLE all have different idears of it being -0 or -7 69-7263 is now in the USAFM
at Wright Patt it's history shows by 1988 Transferred to the 81st TFS/52nd TFW. BARG/SCRAMBLE have corrected this
to -0 while WLAG have stuck -7

I remember being at a EGUA/Upper Heyford show 69-7558 i think had on it's TDB 69-0558 'wrong'

Hope to get to the bottom of this one SOME DAY

Wolf51 Flt and I know 69-0 was a WOLFHOUND aircraft when it was still an E

[slogen51]

I only saw 7750 as a SP

Given the number of spotters on this site and the number of times Bentwaters was visited you would think someone would have logged it as a WR so maybe forgotten jets is incorrect and it went from HR to SP?

[Wolf51 Flt]

I agree with that Mike was you with me that day when you saw the SP D

What's your spin on 69-( )263/SP I saw it first in EGUL/Lakenheath 9th Jan 1988 as (Y/Wt)
again in UL 19th Nov 1988 this time (Y/Bk) then four years's later at EGWZ /Alconbury show
in 1992 GY c/s but parked on the northside check list states this as 69-0

69-7263 was in the Gulf war WW/35th TFW c/o aircraft and reported to have Launched more
than 40 HARM's during Operation Desert Storm. There are photos clearly showing it marked
as 35TFW AF697263 WW on the tail and was reported as visiting EDAD/Spangdahlem During
it's time while Deployed this is one of the few F-4's with a one piece windshield dont remember
if it had it at UL or converted later I probably did not know about about the windshield them days

There are reports of both 69-0 and 69-7 both at a George AFB open house before 1988 one (Red)
the other (Blue) same day I spoke with Boxhill and plmc 135 over the land line about this those
69 FY F-4G's were a pain Spangdahlem had both 270's and both 286's when they had both 286 they
were with the same TFS 81st (Yellow)

Wolf51 Flt

[DavidT]

Having started this search for info on 66-7750, I am now in a position to hopefully come up with the conclusion.
Official USAF records show that this airframe moved around as follows during 74-78
Nov 74 Re-assigned from 432 TRW (Udorn) to 50 TFW (Hahn).
Jan 76 Re-assigned from 50 TFW to 52 TFW (Spangdahlem) and still there in 1978.
No record that it ever served with 81 TFW.
Thanks to all who contributed.

David.

[Wolf51 Flt]

David

I think your right I aggree it went HR to SP
BUT IS WAS NOTED AT HAHN 24/08/1976 still as HR in BARG

Wolf51 Flt

[slogen51]

I agree with that Mike was you with me that day when you saw the SP D

What's your spin on 69-( )263/SP I saw it first in EGUL/Lakenheath 9th Jan 1988 as (Y/Wt)
again in UL 19th Nov 1988 this time (Y/Bk) then four years's later at EGWZ /Alconbury show
in 1992 GY c/s but parked on the northside check list states this as 69-0

69-7263 was in the Gulf war WW/35th TFW c/o aircraft and reported to have Launched more
than 40 HARM's during Operation Desert Storm. There are photos clearly showing it marked
as 35TFW AF697263 WW on the tail and was reported as visiting EDAD/Spangdahlem During
it's time while Deployed this is one of the few F-4's with a one piece windshield dont remember
if it had it at UL or converted later I probably did not know about about the windshield them days

There are reports of both 69-0 and 69-7 both at a George AFB open house before 1988 one (Red)
the other (Blue) same day I spoke with Boxhill and plmc 135 over the land line about this those
69 FY F-4G's were a pain Spangdahlem had both 270's and both 286's when they had both 286 they
were with the same TFS 81st (Yellow)

Wolf51 Flt

In my books I ( think/hope) saw 69-7263 as a SP and 69-0263 as a WA

From what I can tell from looking at photos on the WWW 69-7263 was a WW by 6/91 and aerovisuals say 7263 was WW in 1990 hence it being WW during Gulf war 1 although the earliest photo I saw was 6/91 as WW

69-0263 was photographed at Weeze in 1990 as a SP 81TFS and still SP at Wattisham in 1993 but I can't find any photos of 69-0263 before 1990 ??

So if you saw 69-()263 in 1992 as a SP then it should have been 69-0263 as 69-7263 was WW by then

Phantoms could be a real pain with duplicate tail codes. I remember you had to be careful with some 74 fiscal tombs.

[Wolf51 Flt]

Hi chaps

Just been looking through a BARG DVD and have found a 69-(7)263 reported
at Karup Tactical Air Meet as early as "late May 1985"

This is like the 66-7750 story some of us saw as HR or like me SP. There was
an 66-8750 but that has been reported in many books and on the www as 'shot
down by ground fire near Laos 16/2/1971"

Wolf51 Flt

[Yorker]

To add to the discussion re Karup and the 1985 TAM.
BARG reports 4 SP Phantoms taking part 74-1053,74-1638,69-(7)263 and 69-7556. I've photo evidence of 4 SPs at Karup on 29/5/85 which were 74-1053, 74-1638, 69-7556 and 69-(x)293 yellow fin tip. Could the report of '263' possibly be a misprint for '293' ?

[Wolf51 Flt]

That is a verry good point Yorker

I think the only way we can get to the bottom of this is official USAF/81stTFS records
or hope 69-( )263 crew cheif want's to help a few young (at the time )spotters to know
which one he looked after and kept serviceable during the COLD WAR.

[rh226]

This is like the 66-7750 story some of us saw as HR or like me SP. There was
an 66-8750 but that has been reported in many books and on the www as 'shot
down by ground fire near Laos 16/2/1971"

I might be totally wrong on this, but I seem to recall that the easy way to tell the difference between the 66-7xxx and 66-8xxx F-4D blocks was the LORAN "towel rail" fitted to the 66-8xxx ones?

BTW, I also made 66-7750/SP at Lakenheath on 02/04/1977.

[plmc135]

In November 1975 66-7750 was definitely with the 50TFW at Hahn as noted at Alconbury on 9th. My final sighting was at Nellis in October 1985 when it was being operated by 507 TFG 465 TFS AFRes coded "SH" and was taking part in that year's "Gunsmoke" exercise.

[Wolf51 Flt]

Paul

I bet you saw 66-7509 at Nellis as well, after our chat about that a few years ago