Vulcan Ops 2015

[Supra]

On the subject of keeping iconic aircraft flying my thoughts are:-
a) Keep the Vulcan flying for as long as possible, maybe by 2014 & as we exit this 'quadruple-dip' recession??, a sponsorship deal to help with running costs could emerge.
b) You will never get enough 'dosh' in sponsorship to restore the a/c to flight status once it's grounded.
c) I personally didn't mind the Red Bull scheme on the Vixen, but more essentially it saved the airframe from rotting in the corner of a hangar to the point where it was financially unfeasible to return to the air.
d) If the Vixen didn't fly like a advertising hoarding for a few years, we wouldn't get the opportunity to see it airborne now in an authentic scheme.
e) By the same token, if Mr Teichman wants a skull on his P40, then go ahead with my blessing. He can put what he wants on it. I just want to see it fly. (ps..I like the scheme anyway!)
f) Restoring the Coventry Shackleton to flight will be like urinating into a gale, but I really do hope that succeeds. I'm just sad that we had a flying example which finished it's days in Pima, beautifully re-painted, but grounded! Once again two much better candidates for flying preservation were frittered away by that Constanides feller & left to rot in Paphos.
It is always the case that 'you don't know what you had 'til it's gone!'
On the issue of the starving in the world, a very emotive subject that can't be dismissed, I still find it dis-tasteful that we can give £800 billion?? in Foreign Aid to very little apparent effect. Whilst the man down the street (who paid into the system his entire life) is condemned to die from something preventable, as the local Health Trust won't fund expensive life-saving drugs. I'm reminded that 'Charity begins at Home', unless of course one calls his plight an act of God...a bit like controlling the World population?

[LincsVRS]

I 100% agree with the comments about our aid budget, I think we all have a good idea where it goes and know most of the time it will never get to the people that need it.

Obviously I don't know what the trust has and has not tried, you would need a very hefty sponser, like the red bulls, pepsico, virgins of this world and in exchange the name of the sponser would have to be in the title, like vodafone McLaren Merc, Carling Premiership etc etc. However that could be the price to pay to have the thing flying, although I doubt the big name sponser would come as she would have to increase her profile tenfold I would imagine before the sponsor deemed it worth the investment as let's face it all she really does is a few airshows in Summer, she would have to be seen more than the Red Arrows I would imagine. Again I don't always agree but its how the world works!

[richw_82]

On the subject of keeping iconic aircraft flying my thoughts are:-
f) Restoring the Coventry Shackleton to flight will be like urinating into a gale, but I really do hope that succeeds. I'm just sad that we had a flying example which finished it's days in Pima, beautifully re-painted, but grounded! Once again two much better candidates for flying preservation were frittered away by that Constanides feller & left to rot in Paphos.

Peeing into a gale? Some would say restoring a complex jet aircraft to flight - costing £7m - and then double that to keep it there these past few years was a similar feat!

I'm curious to know what you're basing your comments on as to why the others were/are better candidates for flight? All four Shackletons were sold as serviceable, but not airworthy. There were no differences between the one that eventually went to Pima, the ones that went to Cyprus, or ours at Coventry except for a handful of hours difference in total flying hours.

If you just wanted a Shackleton to fly again anywhere, it would be surprisingly pain free to do it in the USA, and we'd be able to get WR963 in the air quite quickly over there. But thats not the UK, and we'd run out of support as fast as did WL790. She flew barely enough hours over the period 1997 - 2007 to keep her crew current.


Fair play to the Vulcan chaps for keeping XH558 going this long. And if they've found a way to keep her going until everything runs out of life at the same point - is that not the best that you could ask for? How many people would be banging on about wasting money if she was grounded with plenty hours left?

[NAM Updater]

Keep the faith Rich - yours is an extremely worthy project!

[Hurn]

but would it not make more sense [since we have a BBMF] to base the Vulcan at RAF Waddington, serviced & operated by Service personnel & funded by public appeal?

The Vulcan has been based at various RAF stations over the years, but ultimately it's been a bit of a burden for both parties. Hangar tours are a good way of increasing revenue but they were just so limited in opportunities to run them at an RAF base where security had to be that much tighter, and valuable income was lost. At least at Doncaster they have a stable base from which to work from, which doesn't close on a weekend and hangar tours and other money making events are much easier to organise and run.

Or, cut 'our' losses & scrap it, channelling the funds accumulated so far into buying the second Lancaster and operating it funded in the same way.

I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to take money donated to a charity and just hand it over to another organisation, not to mention the uproar from the people who's money was intended for the Vulcan.
And I doubt the Pantons want to sell off their pride and joy either, especially when they seem quite capable of running the whole project by themselves anyway.

[richw_82]

Keep the faith Rich - yours is an extremely worthy project!

Cheers!

I keep the faith, but I just find it rather sad that so many people are so quick to knock efforts of other organisations. Whichever way you look at XH558 - whether you think its been mishandled, mismanaged, or that it should be sporting some garish fizzy drink colour scheme by now - it is one hell of an achievement by any standard.

I just hope that we (Shackleton Preservation Trust) can do as well in the future and be as thick skinned in the face of near constant criticsim. VTTS are going to be a tough act to follow.

[LincsVRS]

Jem60: Thank you for your comments, its nice to know there are other people about also feel the same. I don't want to drag this post off topic too much but I agree whole heartedly that just being born British (or other 1st world countries) is just like winning the lottery. When I start to enjoy life luxuries here I do have a little sense of guilt I must admit, buying a lens for my camera worth £1k, eating too much you feel sick etc. I agree with foreign aid mostly, I just hate the way that even that is corrupt in this world and can end up being spend on weapons or lining the pockets of dictatorial regimes.

Hurn: Very good point about the access where they are at the moment, I didn't think of that at all when I was writing, probably because I haven't been to one. It would be entirely different if it were on RAF Property. When the Lincs & Notts Air Ambulance that is based at RAF Waddington do things they tend to fly over the fence and land again, often just a few yards away to facilitate public visitors rather than having to sort out guest entry to Waddington etc. It now lands at the viewing area I believe.

richw_82: They have certainly done well to keep it in original colours and resist painting it like a coca cola can, a pack of butter or a bar of chocolate. The costs are so high, to even get it in the air is an achievement never mind keeping it there. I certainly didn't think there would be the support out there but I'm glad that I was wrong. My only possible criticisms are that we don't see her enough and then the mix up with paperwork that happened when she didn't get display authority (or similar)
and missed out on various appearances. But even with that I don't know enough about it to say for sure that was the fault of the trust.

There are literally hundreds of choices the trust have to make and the more options you have the less support you will have for the options you choose on most occasions. As a matter of interest can anyone supply me with a couple of figures, 1) How much in total have the raised, from their first penny to now? And 2) How much does it cost on average per year to have a good season?

Oh and if they changed their minds and started funding something different I'm almost certain they would be reported to the charities commission and although they (charities commission) are overworked and under funded it would cause a whole world of problems for everyone.

[stevep22]

As with all charities information on the Trust (and copies of its last accounts) are available on the Charity Commission website. All charities must operate within their charitable objects but it is interesting to note VTTT's object number 3.

'To assist in the conservation in full working order of other heritage aircraft of the 20th century'.

Techncially I suppose this would allow them to operate beyond to confines of XH558. However I think they have got their hands full with the Vulcan, and do a good job if I may say so.

Steve

[LincsVRS]

That's an interesting objective, thanks for sharing. I might try and dig the two figures out I asked for earlier unless someone knows them off the top of their head and posts them sooner.

[Mayfly]

£7m to restore her, £2m pa to run her. Not all that comes from Joe Public they do have corporate sponsors and they also raise money through retail and raffles.

On top of that many OEMs have done work for cost or in some cases free. There is no such thing as 'on the cheap' when it come to aviation so I would say at cost is still fairly expensive.

On another note you could say that whilst 558 is expensive, industry somewhere is benefiting from her flying and those companies whether it be insurance or petroleum or the aviation industry in turn employ people so to my mind it's not as tho' it is all being 'thrown' at the wall.

[LincsVRS]

7m to restore and 2m a year is jolly good going. Since the national lottery a lot of charities have struggled to raise in total what is a weekly top prize fund for the lottery. That and the economic climate means the trust have done very well in my humble opinion.

[phil8561]

I for one am happy that they are trying to keep her flying as long as they can

[LincsVRS]

I must admit I thought there would be more people responding to this thread that would disagree with the amount of money being spent on the Vulcan, even though were probably all aviation fans as were members of the forum. I think I am pleasantly surprised.

I need to sort myself out when it comes to her, I have various problems with my health and I often joke that "when the Vulcan is well, I am ill, But when I am well, the Vulcan is ill" I only got to see her from a long distance a few years ago then an overhead flight at Waddington last yer(ish). Fingers crossed for this season, otherwise I will have to arrange a static tour!

As for international aid, I agree with the principle however in practice it looks like it hardly ever goes to the right people and I wouldn't mind betting the figure for a third world countries aid and the figure they spend on arms may coincidentally be very similar.

The worlds broke and I don't know how to fix it. Then end

;-)

[Skywatcher]

Counting down to see her at Riat ...can't actually wait know ..that lovely howl

[phil8561]

Counting down to see her at Riat ...can't actually wait know ..that lovely howl

It's even better when your house is under her flight path for RIAT

[C24]

So you say to the dying kids, who did not ask to be born, that 'Sorry, I'm far better off than you, but that's the way it goes, you carry on dying of hunger, 'cos you ain't gettin any more from me'.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but that basically is what was posted. Last from me on this subject. I know I took it off thread, and I apologise.

Perhaps not so off thread, jem60. Simplistically, the a/c was built to bomb people although now we would like to continue with the engineered side of her. To see her fly.
As to aid, too many people in the World. If every human was responsible for bringing no more than only two children into the World & each nation took good care of their own children there would be less to be concerned about.
If you can spare the donation to the Vulcan, hand it over, or to any similar scheme.
Most FCers would support aircraft groups, I'm sure.
Enjoy them whist you can

[POL]

So the sponsor simply covers the lottery funding too and repaints the aircraft...?

[Hurn]

Should the Vulcan To The Sky Trust strive to keep XH558 flying after 2013?

Give your opinion.

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/489/ ... stion.html