Did you know that registration to Fighter Control is completely free and brings you lots of added features? Find out more....

Rolls... Real or Fake?

For announcements, photographs and video's and general '558 related chat.
User avatar
C24
Posts: 3188
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:52 am
Location: In the 51st State of the Union

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by C24 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:03 am

As "one1938" writes, Roly Falk did roll a Mk 1 Vulcan on more than one occasion. Source, Tony Blackman's book, "Vulcan Test Pilot".
Page 103: Roly Falk had done simple rolls ... in XA890. ...the first prototype VX770 had been looped. ...at Hucknall, pilots were carrying out aerobatics at the end of each sortie...doing rolls of the tops ... one day a full loop was carried out though hushed up.
Page 128: in June 1955 Roly demonstrated XA889, the first production model. ...on the 31st August he took off from Woodford and practised a few barrel rolls to the east of the Pennines.

There is more in the book basically confirming that it was not uncommon to perform aeros during RAF squadron sorties.

Who wouldn't ? :Oops:
C24.
493d/48th - Grim Reapers Supporter.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/charlie-two-four/ FuzzyFastjetFotos, incorporating "HazyHelos"
There's no "go-round" in a glider.

jem60
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Chedburgh, Suffolk

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by jem60 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:24 pm

Piloting [anything] is a very disciplined activity. What bothers me much is not the fact that it was possibly barrel rolled, but has this manouvre been practised by the crew beforehand?. If so, where was this done. presumably over the sea??. Is the Vulcan crewed by just the two pilots, or are other crew aboard?. If other crew are aboard, then perhaps they were in danger of being place in a dangerous situation by pilots possibly John Wayneing around? Barrel rolls are not outside the capability of most aircraft, given the fact that positive 'G' must be maintained throught, and starts with a substantial pull -up., and if there is enough momentum, given all sorts of other more subtle control inputs, round it should go. The possible worry I have with this is that the pull-up is always followed by a steepish nosed down attitude, which has cost the lives of many a crew and aircraft over the years. The P38 at Duxford is a classic example. If the altitude of this supposed event was at a relatively low altitude, then I would be surprised if the CAA took no action. Problem is, if too much height IS being lost after the roll, then pulling harder to cure it is perhaps not an easy answer. Overstress, high speed stall etc...
I love Airshows, and have attended hundreds over many years, and even saw a Vulcan pull into a half loop with a roll off the top on take-off!!.[Farnborough a lifetime ago!] Good old days!, except that I have seen pilots killed by rule breaking several times. Definitely not nice!! Problem for me is that rule-breaking and flying are not good bed fellows, and the oft quoted adage ALWAYS applies. There are a lot of old pilots and a lot of bold pilots etc.,etc., Personally, I care little whether or not it was rolled. The safety aspect is a little bothersome to me.

User avatar
C24
Posts: 3188
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:52 am
Location: In the 51st State of the Union

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by C24 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:40 am

Discipline. Aah, yes!

Lorry drivers using mobile phones on the move; drivers not using indicators to warn others of their intentions to manoeuvre, I could go on but my morning cuppa would get cold.
Perfectly yours,
Charlie ;)
C24.
493d/48th - Grim Reapers Supporter.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/charlie-two-four/ FuzzyFastjetFotos, incorporating "HazyHelos"
There's no "go-round" in a glider.

iainpeden
Posts: 1054
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:20 pm

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by iainpeden » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:51 am

Vulcans used to do a figure of eight within the airfield boundaries at Cottemore - but I don't believe XH558 rolled over Grantham. If it was going to happen the crew would have taken her out over the North Sea away from prying eyes.

Mikedee
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:30 pm
Location: PEEBLES

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Mikedee » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:32 am

The Fox wrote:
If they are found to be genuine the outcome could be quite traumatic. I see a couple of immediate actions:

1. Martin Withers has his Vulcan display authority revoked.
2. The Vulcan gets grounded

Oh dear, thinking about it.....

But surely there will have to be another drawn out Chilcott report on this alleged incident......

I bet some peoples somewhere are quietly thinking of ........."The Return of Vulcan to The Sky part two" . :clap: :clap:

User avatar
Blue Diamond
Posts: 2828
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:06 am

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Blue Diamond » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:12 pm

jem60 wrote:Piloting [anything] is a very disciplined activity. What bothers me much is not the fact that it was possibly barrel rolled, but has this manouvre been practised by the crew beforehand?. If so, where was this done. presumably over the sea??. Is the Vulcan crewed by just the two pilots, or are other crew aboard?. If other crew are aboard, then perhaps they were in danger of being place in a dangerous situation by pilots possibly John Wayneing around? Barrel rolls are not outside the capability of most aircraft, given the fact that positive 'G' must be maintained throught, and starts with a substantial pull -up., and if there is enough momentum, given all sorts of other more subtle control inputs, round it should go. The possible worry I have with this is that the pull-up is always followed by a steepish nosed down attitude, which has cost the lives of many a crew and aircraft over the years. The P38 at Duxford is a classic example. If the altitude of this supposed event was at a relatively low altitude, then I would be surprised if the CAA took no action. Problem is, if too much height IS being lost after the roll, then pulling harder to cure it is perhaps not an easy answer. Overstress, high speed stall etc...
I love Airshows, and have attended hundreds over many years, and even saw a Vulcan pull into a half loop with a roll off the top on take-off!!.[Farnborough a lifetime ago!] Good old days!, except that I have seen pilots killed by rule breaking several times. Definitely not nice!! Problem for me is that rule-breaking and flying are not good bed fellows, and the oft quoted adage ALWAYS applies. There are a lot of old pilots and a lot of bold pilots etc.,etc., Personally, I care little whether or not it was rolled. The safety aspect is a little bothersome to me.
You may have failed to notice but roll or no roll, the Vulcan didn't crash nor even come close to crashing.
Fighting 92 - The King Cobras
http://www.92squadron.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.92squadron.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jem60
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Chedburgh, Suffolk

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by jem60 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:17 pm

Think I would have heard about it if it had crashed, or come near to it. :) I know this post ambled on a bit, but you may have failed to notice that the post was really more about whether or not breaking rules is a good thing or not. The P38 at Duxford had been rolled many times without coming anywhere near to crashing.... until one day, it did............
I

rich71
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by rich71 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:50 pm

jem60 wrote:Think I would have heard about it if it had crashed, or come near to it. :) I know this post ambled on a bit, but you may have failed to notice that the post was really more about whether or not breaking rules is a good thing or not. The P38 at Duxford had been rolled many times without coming anywhere near to crashing.... until one day, it did............
I
Similar too the A26 invader at biggin hill sometimes we dont learn from previous mistakes....That said the Vulcan was not displaying and was at a significant altitude where I doubt the risk was any more than a conventional wing over.

User avatar
Blue Diamond
Posts: 2828
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:06 am

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Blue Diamond » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:54 pm

jem60 wrote:Think I would have heard about it if it had crashed, or come near to it. :) I know this post ambled on a bit, but you may have failed to notice that the post was really more about whether or not breaking rules is a good thing or not. The P38 at Duxford had been rolled many times without coming anywhere near to crashing.... until one day, it did............
I
Slightly different circumstances to what the Vulcan may or may not have done over Grantham.
Fighting 92 - The King Cobras
http://www.92squadron.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.92squadron.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

page_verify
Posts: 1640
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:19 pm

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by page_verify » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:33 pm

Folks, apologies if I've missed the important posts but two weeks after the last flight is there any confirmation that the Vulcan actually did roll?

Maverick231
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 9:05 pm
Location: Loughborough
Contact:

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Maverick231 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:47 pm

I'd be curious to know too.
The Harrier Jump Jet - The best there is, The best there was and The best there ever will be!
Model Harriers in the stash = 73 and counting.

POL
Posts: 16715
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:26 pm

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by POL » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:28 am

As the CAA haven't released the findings of their investigations, it's unlikely anyone knows yet.

User avatar
Prometheusuk
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:35 am
Location: West Surrey

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Prometheusuk » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:26 pm

Any update on this?
UBC125XLT
RTL-SDR
MicroADSB

Supra
Posts: 2696
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Supra » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:43 pm

Probably consigned to Room 101 along with 'Old Wives Tales' of Headless Horsemen, Tooth Fairies & Live Public Taxi-runs by the Vulcan!
Really!..C'mon :lol:

Nnthusiast
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:48 am
Location: Liverpool

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Nnthusiast » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:50 pm

I guarantee at least 3 people know, but are staying Shtumm on the matter. ;)

boff180
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:57 pm
Location: BHX
Contact:

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by boff180 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:37 pm

Apologies for the plug mods :cool:

Yesterday, Dr Pleming, Chief Exec of the VTST gave UKAR an in depth no holes barred interview on the current state of the XH558, the future and how it happened.

As part of that interview Dr Pleming confirmed that the rolls DID happen.

You can listen to the hour long interview here, it is also on iTunes:-
http://www.airshows.co.uk/podcast/

Andy
*hides*
Image

User avatar
gamecock
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by gamecock » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:54 pm

I think the phrase you're looking for is 'no-holds' Andy. Unless it was a particularly rigorous interview.

User avatar
thorny1a
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Norwich, Norfolk

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by thorny1a » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:39 pm

****That interview is a must listen for all Vulcan fans****

Fascinating to hear Dr Plemming in his own words describing the current situation (which seems rather touch & go despite his optimism), and some pretty probing & astute questioning by the reporter too!

I thought I'd jump for joy when I heard that she had been rolled, but given that it was post-Shoreham & directly contravened the permit to fly which prohibited aerobatic maneuvers... I'm not so sure :blush: But let's face it, what's done is done, it can never happen again.... & the crew proved, you can indeed barrel roll the old girl! :whistle:

Matt
- RAF Coltishall - Gone but never forgotten
- Norfolk. Nelson's County

User avatar
Richard B
Moderator
Posts: 4924
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:53 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by Richard B » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Dan O'Hagans, pod cast interview with Dr Pleming, can be found here.
http://www.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/downl ... sode-9.mp3

ST24
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:02 pm

Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?

Post by ST24 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:14 am

gamecock wrote:I think the phrase you're looking for is 'no-holds' Andy. Unless it was a particularly rigorous interview.
:lol: :lol:

Post Reply

Return to “The Vulcan XH558 Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests