Reds not doing full display at Farnborough - Flypasts only.

[Blackcat1]

Will they do full display at RIAT ? As lots of areas with enthusiasts around the base for eg Rhymes field?

[slogen51]

The western end at Farnborough is uninhabited. One road and a canal path. To block the canal path during a display is madness. There is more chance of falling in the canal than being hit by a hawk.

I accept that displaying over some ones house is pushing it a bit but over fields and roads shouldn't be an issue unless you have a one in ten thousand like Shoreham.


Farnborough airfield has been there a lot longer than any of the houses at the Eastern end .

The Reds are world famous and a national treasure and I really despair if the authorities cannot find a bold solution instead of the ban it all syndrome.

[bizfreeq]

Brilliant that, the airfield was there first, so therefore you must be saying we should ignore the safety issues that the houses now present. Most ridiculous statement made in this thread so far and that's saying something!

[slogen51]

So you are saying the Reds are not safe??

As mentioned no houses exist at the western end anyway

[bizfreeq]

So you are saying the Reds are not safe??

As mentioned no houses exist at the western end anyway

No I'm not but the RAF are saying (as it is they who have pulled the display, no one else) that it isn't safe for them to display at Farnborough and as far as I'm concerned they are in a far better position to make that judgement than you, I, or anyone else here.

[slogen51]

True. They will be at Bournemouth or am I being ridiculous again

[UKADGE]

Why not move 'Farnborough' to Fairford. Either Hold it the week after RIAT, or combine the events. Two years to think about it and come up with an alternative venue. The Aerospace companies need some place to show off their kit and wears at its best. Not be hemmed in by the changing face of the airfield its self and the housing developments. Farnborough is hallowed ground and the cradle of British Aviation, but viability as a flying display venue, it is increasingly looking untenable.

That said the CAA response to the Shoreham crash is an attack on the British airshow, in terms of increased costs and charges.... are they really justified ? A tightening of rules and regulation yes. Because this crash has highlighted shortcomings in the CAA its self.. Airshow organizers and display authorization. But did they really need to slap such huge increases in costs in to the bargain too ?

[gyvespa]

Any one remember my 'Not Looking Good' thread of March 2nd 2016.

viewtopic.php?f=287&t=126787

Well, it's still not looking good :-(
Unfortunately I may have been correct (for once).

[ColintheCaterpillar]

Farnborough airfield has been there a lot longer than any of the houses at the Eastern end.

Oh, I see. Then it's all ok then - they obviously don't matter.

As I said, just move the display datum. No one will be able to see the display, but it seems everyone will be happy.

[slogen51]

It was ok to display at EGLF in 2014, 2012,2010 and oh yes 2008 etc

Didn't see you raise objections on here then.

Fact is they are not displaying , this is discussion and those are my opinions. My opinion is that it is a knee jerk reaction as professional teams are safe as is aviation in general. Safety is the number one priority in any form of aviation and display teams are no different. It goes without saying that when a red arrow goes to work he/she fully expects to come home just like you and me.


Sorry if my opinion differs to yours but I disagree with you.
Mike

[ColintheCaterpillar]

It was ok to display at EGLF in 2014, 2012,2010 and oh yes 2008 etc

Didn't see you raise objections on here then.

Fact is they are not displaying , this is discussion and those are my opinions. My opinion is that it is a knee jerk reaction as professional teams are safe as is aviation in general. Safety is the number one priority in any form of aviation and display teams are no different. It goes without saying that when a red arrow goes to work he/she fully expects to come home just like you and me.


Sorry if my opinion differs to yours but I disagree with you.
Mike

I'm not objecting to anything now - rather I'm stating that it's difficult to argue with the logic of the decision. We used to do lots of things that we've subsequently decided are no longer safe/legal/morally acceptable.

[slogen51]

Fair enough I do know what you mean.

But the 'logic of the decision ' is exactly my issue

Anyway Farnborough often has a good quality static - quality over quantity.

Cheers
( Think I have used up my daily posting allowance!)

[C24]

Jem60 summarises the situation quite well in my opinion.

Also, for those of you with a short memory, please remember .. Flt Lt Jon Egging, pilot of Red 4 ( XX179).

Not forgotten.

[the concerned]

At the end of the day Farnborough is a tradeshow first not a public display so whether its a full display or curtailed one is not going to change customers minds on what they want to purchase. On a show like this the reds are not the be all and end all of the event.

[slogen51]

Jem60 summarises the situation quite well in my opinion.
.

Did he. Do you mean teams are no longer deemed safe to perform anymore? What about singleton aerobatics are they ok?

[ColintheCaterpillar]

Jem60 summarises the situation quite well in my opinion.
.

Did he. Do you mean teams are no longer deemed safe to perform anymore? What about singleton aerobatics are they ok?

Singletons have far more flexibility to adjust their displays to the available airspace, and have far lower risks in terms of other factors (such as not being in close formation, some being twin rather than single engines etc). In addition, at the other end of the consideration scale, reputational risk is also far lower.

[Nighthawke]

A singleton has far less risk. Quick lesson here - risk = probability x damage (or loss depending on what is being assessed).

That is a simplistic starting point - the risk for the Red Arrows is not just 9 times more than a single aircraft. There are many more factors to be taken into account by those assessing the risk. That is where the expertise comes in and I would suggest that they are more qualified than many of us.

Arguments can to and fro until the proverbial cows come home, but it won't change things.

Enjoy what you can while you can

[slogen51]

Saw a funny pic on Tony Stevenson's Farnborough face book page

Apparently the Reds are permitted to do formation taxying up and down the runway

[Scudpilot]

Moving the show to another site is all very well, but I think Farnborough themselves will be a little sad, having just spent millions of pounds on a state of the art exhibition set up.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

Moving the show to another site is all very well, but I think Farnborough themselves will be a little sad, having just spent millions of pounds on a state of the art exhibition set up.

Blue sky thinking; we all know in reality the exhibition set up dictates that it would be impractical to move elsewhere.