Is this true? Tell me it's not!

[Wyvern]

I wonder if it might be better if the visiting aircraft used the Red Arrows dispersal? Might reduce problems at the 02 end.

[POL]

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters. Be interesting to see what they'd do if someone challenged it.

[Yunglee]

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters. Be interesting to see what they'd do if someone challenged it.

Not sure that's the right thought process to be honest, standing (stationary) by the red and white fence is outright dangerous especially when you see how low some of the Saudi F-15 approaches have been. And the RC-135 crews hold take offs when people are stood there, so it's disrupting operations. If people can't read the signs or see on social media the instruction not to do so then I'm OK with this.
My concern is whether this stops people walking past the red and white fence to get to the other side; I suspect not as I think this is aimed at those stood by the aformentioned fence and not those walking along the verge
Lee

[Vulcanone]

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters. Be interesting to see what they'd do if someone challenged it.

Not sure that's the right thought process to be honest, standing (stationary) by the red and white fence is outright dangerous especially when you see how low some of the Saudi F-15 approaches have been. And the RC-135 crews hold take offs when people are stood there, so it's disrupting operations. If people can't read the signs or see on social media the instruction not to do so then I'm OK with this.
My concern is whether this stops people walking past the red and white fence to get to the other side; I suspect not as I think this is aimed at those stood by the aformentioned fence and not those walking along the verge
Lee

If your in a position whereby you have to walk from Bracebridge Heath, perhaps having parked up there. They said they have no issues with that. It is just around the red/white fence area between the lights

[cat1]

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters. Be interesting to see what they'd do if someone challenged it.

If people can't read the signs or see on social media the instruction not to do so

That's the thing. these people for the most part couldn't tell you what aircraft it is, so they ignore the signs and aren't on the facebook groups.

[Andy Marden]

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters. Be interesting to see what they'd do if someone challenged it.

I'm afraid replies like that aren't particularly helpful.
Perhaps I should lay my cards on the table. I am retired RAF, I was the SATCO (Senior Air Traffic Control Officer) at RAF Waddington from 2000-2003, so perhaps I am (reasonably) well qualified to comment, having seen holes put in the fence by landing Mirage 2000s during my time there.
The difficulty in the modern world is very simple. If an aircraft takes someone's head off when it is landing, the first thing that person's lawyer is going to say is "why didn't you move the people away from the dangerous area?". If I then said "because they challenged it and refused to move", they would then say "you should have diverted the aircraft. You are to blame".
It's great taking "amazing" photos (think landing shots at Saint Maarten Airport) until something goes wrong....
Sadly it's an accident waiting to happen IMHO.

[Tiger 1]

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters. Be interesting to see what they'd do if someone challenged it.

I'm afraid replies like that aren't particularly helpful.
Perhaps I should lay my cards on the table. I am retired RAF, I was the SATCO (Senior Air Traffic Control Officer) at RAF Waddington from 2000-2003, so perhaps I am (reasonably) well qualified to comment, having seen holes put in the fence by landing Mirage 2000s during my time there.
The difficulty in the modern world is very simple. If an aircraft takes someone's head off when it is landing, the first thing that person's lawyer is going to say is "why didn't you move the people away from the dangerous area?". If I then said "because they challenged it and refused to move", they would then say "you should have diverted the aircraft. You are to blame".
It's great taking "amazing" photos (think landing shots at Saint Maarten Airport) until something goes wrong....
Sadly it's an accident waiting to happen IMHO.

Hi Andy

I total agree with you ..having witnessed what I saw on day 1 of CW it was indeed an accident waiting to happen and very nearly did...cars and lorries totally ignoring the red lights and people crossing the road totally oblivious of the danger approaching traffic posed.

Please stay safe everyone

Regards.
T1

[B58Hustler]

I went to Waddo on Thursday and almost wish I hadn’t.
As previously mentioned, the majority of the offenders were idiots videoing the Red Arrows on their phones.
Personally wish the Reds were still at Scampton.

[Tally-ho]

I am retired RAF, I was the SATCO (Senior Air Traffic Control Officer) at RAF Waddington from 2000-2003, so perhaps I am (reasonably) well qualified to comment . . .

Fully agree with your sentiments.

As previously mentioned, the majority of the offenders were idiots videoing the Red Arrows on their phones.

Right you are.

For the first time in many years I have stayed away from a Cobra Warrior exercise. The vibe and enjoyment there once was amongst real aircraft enthusiasts, photographers, and knowledgeable spotters, is in serious decline. The clueless yob element along the A15 with their phone-cameras is not for me.

Perhaps the time has come for the powers-that-be to make the decision to close the WAVE and simply place a ban on people along the entire perimeter of Waddington.

[Tooks]

I don’t think banning things is the way forward, and closing the WAVE would simply shift the problem somewhere else.

Everybody gets started as an aircraft enthusiast somewhere and somehow, for many it’s not about the photographs nor social media but merely experiencing the spectacle.

The answer is education, slowing the traffic down and policing it, including issuing penalties for people who fail to adhere to the rules around where to view from. I’m always amazed at how many vehicles ignore the red lights both at Waddington and Coningsby to name just 2 bases, maybe time to invest in some red light cameras.

Traffic/people is an issue by the Coningsby viewing area as well, I’m always very careful and slow down as children in particular have a habit of running between the car park and fence line.

I haven’t been to the WAVE this year, I’m fortunate to be able to view things from inside the wire, but it does sound pretty bad from what you’re all saying.

We’re fortunate to have great support for our armed forces here in the UK, particularly the RAF in Lincolnshire, it should be expected that people will come to view the aircraft and there should be a bit more put into the planning and policing side as it feels a bit reactive at the moment.

Policing an outright base wire ban would probably take more resource than policing the viewing arrangements that are in place. It would also avoid spotters/viewers constantly driving around the base via Waddington, the WAVE, Bracebridge etc to get a view of something, probably more dangerous than being able to park up.

There are always selfish people at such events, I fully support the police tackling them and whilst I wish they didn’t have to do it at all I’d rather they dealt with the problem rather than close it for everybody.

[Tiger 1]

Hi Tooks

" Quote...The answer is education, slowing the traffic down and policing it, including issuing penalties for people who fail to adhere to the rules around where to view from. I’m always amazed at how many vehicles ignore the red lights both at Waddington and Coningsby to name just 2 bases, maybe time to invest in some red light cameras.,...un Quote"

This may be the way to go...I believe it would certainly put a stop to the two most serious issues and prevent, what is at this time, a potential incident waiting to happen.

Please everyone stay safe, be mindful of your actions and your surroundings...enjoy the rest of CW.

Regards.
T1

[cat1]

It's just what James cutting said earlier.

Don't tell post about it in the public domain, if you don't want people to come.

End of.

[Blackcat001]

One way to minimise the problems at waddington regarding safety etc would be to enforce a ruling at the wave allowing spotters who produce both a camera and a set of steps to cross the road if they do not have both they must stay in the wave itself that would separate the enthusiasts and just for viewing joe public would see everything in a safe area and issue of safety would improve substantially

[LTFT5]

I have followed this thread and many others and feel it is now time to respond to those quotes listed below based on my experience of aircraft spotting at many bases over the years.

Quotes from threads:
The worst offenders this week I've seen are people with just a phone who wants to get as close as possible
Maybe the base should’ve thought twice before plastering it all over their social media

On matters photography they know little, some with their tippy-tappy, some with bulky tablets . . .
Many then dump their sub-standard takings all over various social media sites, counting the 'likes' and 'faves'.

The base built up so much hype but are unhappy about the amount of people coming.

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters

As previously mentioned, the majority of the offenders were idiots videoing the Red Arrows on their phones.

The vibe and enjoyment there once was amongst real aircraft enthusiasts, photographers, and knowledgeable spotters, is in serious decline. The clueless yob element along the A15 with their phone-cameras is not for me.

Bellwhacker with low IQ

All of that does lead to a mass influx of people who naturally know very little about our hobby, the written (and unwritten) rules which many of us will have abided by for decades. A mother who sees this on youtube and turns up at 1100 with her kids, probably doesn’t appreciate that many of us will have taken annual leave, booked hotels, left home in the ungodly hours and spent a small fortune just to ensure we get ‘that spot.’
It’s hugely frustrating at times but the continual whining from some is in vain. It will only get worse.

From this point on and using the quotes above I will call the military photographers, number collectors, real aircraft enthusiast under the one umbrella of Aviation Enthusiast and those who take their family, those using mobile phones , tablets, tippy tappy, the General Public.

My Observations:
Firstly, why is it the base fault that people cannot behave in the correct manner. Just because they posted it on social media does not mean they have to accept people in the red and white endangering aircraft.

First day of Cobra Warrior there were numerous Aviation Enthusiast on step ladders beyond the lights and in the farmers field at the 02 and 20 end, again I stress Aviation Enthusiast. Therefore, how can you moan with regards to Joe Public doing the same thing.

Did Joe public get the field closed at Leeming, no it was aviation enthusiasts.

Was it Joe public I challenged when 4 Aviation Enthusiast turned right at the bottom of the lane leading to the Waddington 02 threshold and then walked all the way round by the fence simply because they needed the numbers of certain aircraft, and they could not pole them off from the road.

Its been aviation enthusiasts, if we go on the premise of large photo lenses and multiple camera bodies I’ve asked to get out of the 02 end farmers field this year and last year.

Aviation enthusiast setting up a fish eye lens in the landing lights at Coningsby and when asked why simply replied he wanted that shot.

Aviation enthusiast simply ignoring queues at arrival days at RIAT simply so they can be with their aviation enthusiast mates at the front for that special shot.

Aviation enthusiast constantly walking beyond the mound at Coningsby into the area where special grasses were being grown simply so they could get that shot.

Aviation enthusiast at Cottesmore constantly being asked not to walk through crops to access the far end.

Therefore, perhaps the aviation enthusiast community need to take a good look at their own behaviour and address it before blaming Joe Public.
And for anybody who may ask yes I class myself as an aviation enthusiast.

[Yunglee]

Thank you for posting that and highlighting the past examples at other bases - I still morn the loss of the mould at Coningsby; I think it's time for us all to look at our own behavour before throwing stones at others. And it's not just military entusiasts, when Doncaster airport was open it was well known that some shots could only be taken in certain off limits areas but these involved were never called out....

[dannyboyo20]

I have followed this thread and many others and feel it is now time to respond to those quotes listed below based on my experience of aircraft spotting at many bases over the years.

Quotes from threads:
The worst offenders this week I've seen are people with just a phone who wants to get as close as possible
Maybe the base should’ve thought twice before plastering it all over their social media

On matters photography they know little, some with their tippy-tappy, some with bulky tablets . . .
Many then dump their sub-standard takings all over various social media sites, counting the 'likes' and 'faves'.

The base built up so much hype but are unhappy about the amount of people coming.

I wonder what legal basis the police have for issuing these letters

As previously mentioned, the majority of the offenders were idiots videoing the Red Arrows on their phones.

The vibe and enjoyment there once was amongst real aircraft enthusiasts, photographers, and knowledgeable spotters, is in serious decline. The clueless yob element along the A15 with their phone-cameras is not for me.

Bellwhacker with low IQ

All of that does lead to a mass influx of people who naturally know very little about our hobby, the written (and unwritten) rules which many of us will have abided by for decades. A mother who sees this on youtube and turns up at 1100 with her kids, probably doesn’t appreciate that many of us will have taken annual leave, booked hotels, left home in the ungodly hours and spent a small fortune just to ensure we get ‘that spot.’
It’s hugely frustrating at times but the continual whining from some is in vain. It will only get worse.

From this point on and using the quotes above I will call the military photographers, number collectors, real aircraft enthusiast under the one umbrella of Aviation Enthusiast and those who take their family, those using mobile phones , tablets, tippy tappy, the General Public.

My Observations:
Firstly, why is it the base fault that people cannot behave in the correct manner. Just because they posted it on social media does not mean they have to accept people in the red and white endangering aircraft.

First day of Cobra Warrior there were numerous Aviation Enthusiast on step ladders beyond the lights and in the farmers field at the 02 and 20 end, again I stress Aviation Enthusiast. Therefore, how can you moan with regards to Joe Public doing the same thing.

Did Joe public get the field closed at Leeming, no it was aviation enthusiasts.

Was it Joe public I challenged when 4 Aviation Enthusiast turned right at the bottom of the lane leading to the Waddington 02 threshold and then walked all the way round by the fence simply because they needed the numbers of certain aircraft, and they could not pole them off from the road.

Its been aviation enthusiasts, if we go on the premise of large photo lenses and multiple camera bodies I’ve asked to get out of the 02 end farmers field this year and last year.

Aviation enthusiast setting up a fish eye lens in the landing lights at Coningsby and when asked why simply replied he wanted that shot.

Aviation enthusiast simply ignoring queues at arrival days at RIAT simply so they can be with their aviation enthusiast mates at the front for that special shot.

Aviation enthusiast constantly walking beyond the mound at Coningsby into the area where special grasses were being grown simply so they could get that shot.

Aviation enthusiast at Cottesmore constantly being asked not to walk through crops to access the far end.

Therefore, perhaps the aviation enthusiast community need to take a good look at their own behaviour and address it before blaming Joe Public.
And for anybody who may ask yes I class myself as an aviation enthusiast.

As much as I agree with the points you are making; to use a quote from my post without wider context is poor show. I have never exclusively blamed the “general public” - if anything; I have defended their right to be at such events and given my opinion as to why some folk may not be following the “written and unwritten rules.”

I am all too aware of the small minority of enthusiasts who conduct themselves appallingly…..not dissimilar to the small minority of football fans who conduct themselves appallingly. Every group will have such morons and always will.
My post was in relation to the negativity and abuse being cast upon “those with ladders and big lenses.”


I ask respectfully that you consider the wider context of someones post before utilising a single quote to fit the agenda of your post.

Danny

[LTFT5]

Dannyboyo20
If you read my post nowhere do I state you exclusively blame Joe public.

Andy

[reaper493]

I think this has run it's course now.