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Formula 1 2021

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James Cutting
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by James Cutting » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:43 pm

Not like Hamitlon also didn't fully turn into the Copse apex during the summer...And a lesser penalty than Tsunoda for crossing pit lane lines... :whistle: :whistle: just sayin'

...Ultimately, the FIA are just badly inconsistent and little clarity for fans or drivers.
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d555
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by d555 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:52 pm

Didn't Hamilton get a penalty at Silverstone?
Just sayin'.

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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by scorpont » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:53 pm

d555 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:52 pm
Didn't Hamilton get a penalty at Silverstone?
Just sayin'.
Hamilton won the race - perhaps - due to that incident, to be fair. Hamilton gained a massive lasting advantage from that, Max's advantage at Interlagos fizzled away in a couple of laps

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James Cutting
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by James Cutting » Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:32 pm

Precisely that.

And it was nowhere near enough of a penalty...it's happened many times in the past and nobody bats an eyelid.
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2e1var
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by 2e1var » Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:57 pm

seven wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:42 pm
No penalty, so all drivers are free to crowd each other off the track from now on :thumb:
Other than the crash what's the difference between that and Silverstone ? As far as I can see Lewis kept it on the track at Silverstone, Max chose to crash rather than get out of it. At Monza Max was closing the door at chicanes, as soon as Lewis did it he was in the wrong. Getting silly now.
I didn't expect a penalty after the race to be honest, I just hope it's noted an the stewards are more consistent.
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by scorpont » Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:26 pm

2e1var wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:57 pm

Other than the crash what's the difference between that and Silverstone ? As far as I can see Lewis kept it on the track at Silverstone, Max chose to crash rather than get out of it. At Monza Max was closing the door at chicanes, as soon as Lewis did it he was in the wrong. Getting silly now.
Hamilton decided he didn't want to meet the apex in Silverstone at a fast corner, Max (understandably) expected him to make that effort to use the track he had available on the right. Max, as a result, ended up out of the race and in hospital. There was no run off area. Hamilton gained a long lasting and possible championship deciding advantage in his favour. (Although in my opinion, this would be closer to a racing incident than a clear Hamilton fault as Max *did* take a risk trying to follow close to the left of Hamilton's predicted line)

Monza, Max unfortunately found himself victim of the sausage kerbs as a result of a lunge around the outside into T1, had he not bounced there may have been some wheel-to-wheel shoulder barging but no more as Hamilton's wide line through T2 would have covered him, the battle would have continued down around T3 to the chicane of T4-T5. Racing incident, albeit a more serious one.

Interlagos, Max either decided he didn't want to make the corner, went in too deep or lost front-end grip (only the team, Verstappen and the FIA know the answer to that one), Hamilton preempted this and went wider, as there was run-off area the consequence was merely that Hamilton dropped back to where he had originally attacked from. Hamilton went on to win the race, Verstappen's advantage lasted only a couple of laps.

The main difference being the lasting advantage in my eyes. I'm a McLaren fan since the latter Hamilton days at the team, through Alonso and Vandoorne and now with Norris so I'm not overly invested in the RB/Merc drama but that's my take on it (Although I will definitely be following GR63 next year at Merc). I honestly think that the FIA's application of the rules has been fair on these 3 - although there's definitely debate to be had on Silverstone.

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2e1var
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by 2e1var » Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:42 pm

Lasting advantage is irrelevant at the time of the incident, you can't see the future. I've loved seeing McLaren return to form, sad they've dropped off in the last couple, don't think they'll take 3rd now. Definitely my favourite pairing on the grid, you can't not like Lando and Danny.
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d555
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by d555 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:01 pm

James hits the nail on the head.
It's not so much about the robust style of driving by the drivers, after all they have both been guilty at various times this season, but it's the lack of consistency from the stewards/FIA to deal with very similar incidents in an equal manner and that makes it galling for fans of good racing.

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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by raptor9 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:33 pm

2e1var. I am totally in agreement with everything you said. The Sliverstone incident and Interlagos were, in my opinion also, identical. The fact than Silverstone ended in a accident is totally beside the point. The 'offence' [if there was one from Lewis] was identical to the Interlagos incident. LH was penalised, Max was not. Next season the Stewards MUST be more consistent, otherwise the whole thing becomes laughable if there is a problem. Scorpont. You say that there was no run-off at Silverstone. Perhaps you haven't been to Copse Corner where the accident took place,. The run-off is HUGE, and it is only possible to hit the barrier if your car is damaged, or you are a complete nit-wit. A normal spin in an F.1 car will not put you anywhere near the barrier on the outside. Max caused his accident by being a knucklehead by trying to recover 1st place when the obvious solution was to exit wide, come back onto the track in 2nd place, which would have been very easy, and much better than ending up in hospital. It was his choice. He ruined his race. To finish first in motor racing you must first finish!!.

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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by raptor9 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:46 pm

D555. I don't think that more gravel traps are the answer, problem being it will lead to a large increase in Safety Cars whilst cars are recovered from their immobile positions, which happens very frequently. I am with Mr. Brundle on this. Edge of the track should be 30 feet of grass verge, THEN gravel trap. Being on the grass will soon teach them that it doesn't have as much grip as the hard stuff, and will not bog you down like gravel would.

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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by raptor9 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:59 am

So, according to the venerable Dr. Marko, when Lewis supposedly pushed MV off at Silverstone,' it was highly dangerous, he should be banned for two races,' etc.,etc., ad nauseum, but when his wonderboy Max pulls the same move on Lewis it's just 'hard racing' :S :S :S :S Interesting that in Brazil that Lewis took the safe option and ran wide to avoid an accident, thereby keeping himself safe and in the race, whereas Max chose to end his by not using his head!. There you have the difference between two very good drivers. Classic 'to finish first, you must first finish.' Be a good first corner this afternoon methinks!. Have to keep away from news broadcasts. Can't watch it until later tonight!. Wife insists we must go dancing instead!. :(

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seven
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by seven » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:26 am

Don't think you'll miss much. Depending on the outcome of the stewards inquiry of course. I'm guessing 1 place grid penalty for boy wonder. 10 place penalty each for Bottas and Sainz.

Hamilton vs Gasly into turn 1 by rights, could be interesting.
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2e1var
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by 2e1var » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:47 am

seven wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:26 am
Don't think you'll miss much. Depending on the outcome of the stewards inquiry of course. I'm guessing 1 place grid penalty for boy wonder. 10 place penalty each for Bottas and Sainz.

Hamilton vs Gasly into turn 1 by rights, could be interesting.
Lol, Max was double waved yellows, Bottas and Saint weren't apparently.
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2e1var
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by 2e1var » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:41 pm

Horner is a clown, said we can't understand it and blamed the Marshall. Whether its a rogue marshal or not you slow for double waved yellows. Slam dunk Max.
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seven
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by seven » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:55 pm

Spot on, it may be unfair, but as far as safety is concerned, if its double waved yellows you slow down. No questioning. Again it may be unfair, but so is crowding another driver off the track towards Port effing Stanley.
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d555
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by d555 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:33 pm

Hamilton and Gasly on the front row.
Could be interesting, think Gasly is on soft tyres.

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seven
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by seven » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:24 pm

Horrible horner has been called to the stewards for 'using words or writing against the FIA'. I wonder if he'll get a grid penalty or disqualification for that...

Not the most boring race I've ever seen in the end. I only feel its a shame no Mirage/Rafales or F-15s put in an appearance!
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2e1var
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by 2e1var » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:53 am

Bit of a borefest for Hamilton but happy he came away with another solid result. Thought there was some good action through the field, thought Max did a good job of getting up to second so quickly without incident. Shame Bottas wasn't really at the races today, was well positioned to be a great rear gunner for Lewis, didn't seem arsed until Totto gave him the hurry up. I'm not really an Alonso fan but do respect his abilities, great to see him back on the podium. Going into Brazil I'd pretty much written of Lewis for this year, seems like it's game on now, just hope the Merc engine performance doesn't degrade, Saudi looks like it should really suit them so without any silliness this looks like it's going down to the last race now.
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by raptor9 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:53 am

There are reports that Lewis did not have his Brazil engine [the new one] installed. They are saving that up for the next two races. If that is the case, then Red Bull are going to have to find some straight line pace from somewhere. If reliability is good for Max and Lewis, then I suspect that Lewis may well get the Championship!. A visit to the Headmaster for Marko and Horner for their potentially libelous remarks. Not before time!!!.

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James Cutting
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Re: Formula 1 2021

Post by James Cutting » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:26 am

I think despite the controversies, disagreements and playground bickering, it's been a fantastic season, and about time to potentially go down to the last race to decide the championships! Too long it's been wrapped up so early. Either driver I genuinely think deserves it, and will be 2 cracking races to come (not sure on the Jeddah street circuit but we'll see)
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