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The Ukraine Situation

A place to chat and discuss everything and anything thats NOT Military Aviation related. No Civilian Aviation content please. We would be grateful for such inclusions on our sister site - Civilian Aviation.
Col Nago
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by Col Nago » Sun May 08, 2022 8:12 pm

Also the damage the Turkish supplied drones are doing on Snake Island is astonishing. The last three days have basically been Russia getting landing craft and SAM sites taken out, replaced then taken out, replaced then taken out (by the above Su-27 strike) then they landed troops via an Mi-8 which was immediately taken out. Are the Russians really this inept? Or are they being sent to their deaths? I reckon it’s both.

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Bobcode
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by Bobcode » Tue May 10, 2022 1:52 pm

Col Nago, I believe the Russians are that inept. History will show that Russian military planning relies on troop numbers to swamp their enemy rather than skilful use of men and material. In my opinion the only reason they eventually prevailed during WW2 was down to the arms and armour supplied to them and the wanton waste of their troops lives in sending wave after wave into battle, they have no interest in human life. Militarily they are inept.🇺🇦

pg1610
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by pg1610 » Thu May 12, 2022 11:05 am

LotusDriver10 wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 11:30 pm
Bit weird that - regarding Turkey supplying drones to Ukraine for use against Russia while Turkish Flights are still flying into Russia (have seen them on ADS-B) you would think a flight ban the same as the other countries would be in force.
Turkey are trying to take the middle ground , somebody has to

A flight ban would need to be instigated by Turkey which is unlikely as
Russian flights into Turkey bring lots of money for the tourist economy of Turkey,(less currently I accept),
flights the other way keep a door open in case any of the thousands of western employees, diplomats etc need a way out

Russia will not ban Turkish flights as they need to keep Turkey happy so they don`t close the Bosphorus which Russian ships need to sail up/through to gain access to the Black Sea (as does all other shipping
Now this stretch of waterway is closed to military shipping but not commercial shipping, I am unsure if Russian shipping is banned (I doubt it is )

so with all the above Russia whilst not happy with Turkey over the supply of drones has to live with it to keep access to the Black Sea

I think, well that`s how I read the situation
Phil

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paddyboy
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by paddyboy » Fri May 13, 2022 4:05 am

I think you’ve nailed it, Phil :thumb:
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Vulcanone
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by Vulcanone » Mon May 16, 2022 12:18 pm

And considering Putin was against the expansion of NATO..... Now we will see Finland and Sweden joining it ..

Not going to well is it Vlad.....

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C24
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by C24 » Thu May 19, 2022 7:06 am

🇺🇦 🌻

Both countries have applied to join but Turkey will try to prevent membership using it’s veto

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_195468.htm

👐🏼🤡🛰
C24.
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iainpeden
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by iainpeden » Thu May 19, 2022 7:40 am

C24 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:06 am
🇺🇦 🌻

Both countries have applied to join but Turkey will try to prevent membership using it’s veto

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_195468.htm

👐🏼🤡🛰
Possible negotiation to get Turkey back into the F-35 programme?

welshandy
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by welshandy » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:35 am

Just been reading the interview Steve Rosenberg did with Sergei Lavrov. Full interview here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61825525

Hers is one of the quotes from the Russian Foreign Minister.
"We didn't invade Ukraine, we declared a special military operation because we had absolutely no other way of explaining to the West that dragging Ukraine into Nato was a criminal act."

I don't recall NATO "dragging" Ukraine into joining. I thought they(Ukraine) asked to join.

Gordyflyer
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by Gordyflyer » Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:15 am

Unfortunately we no longer have any journalists with the calibre to turn the screw and put things like Lavrov in their place.
Grimsby - don't bother going there as the road network is designed by an idiot with a traffic light fetish!

slogen51
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by slogen51 » Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:17 pm

Sky News

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/russian- ... w-12686753

Russian oil boss Ravil Maganov who criticised war in Ukraine dies 'after falling from hospital window'
Ravil Maganov, who was chairman of the board at Lukoil, had called for the "soonest termination of the armed conflict" after Russia's invasion in February.

Shouldn't really be surprised

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plmc135
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by plmc135 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:33 am

The time has come for Governments to stop these massive arms deliveries to Ukraine and attempt to get the two factions together to sort this mess out. In addition to the Ukrainian populous, we are the ones who are paying the penalty for this and so long as we are arming Ukraine this conflict will continue at our personal expense.

Time to put pressure on the UN to act, they have hardly been mentioned all through. This must be stopped a.s.a.p. and it will only be done by talking.

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steamy
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by steamy » Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:43 am

plmc135 wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:33 am
The time has come for Governments to stop these massive arms deliveries to Ukraine and attempt to get the two factions together to sort this mess out. In addition to the Ukrainian populous, we are the ones who are paying the penalty for this and so long as we are arming Ukraine this conflict will continue at our personal expense.

Time to put pressure on the UN to act, they have hardly been mentioned all through. This must be stopped a.s.a.p. and it will only be done by talking.
Ukraine will be flattened by the time Russia entertained any idea of talking, if the shipments stopped.

As long as Russia have a veto, the UN is useless in this situation.
5cabaa953bd37c3e357e779bb82aa195eda3b2afa2bdd19594a7162c4f7497be

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plmc135
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by plmc135 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:33 am

So we are just going to allow this to drag on for evermore?

slogen51
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by slogen51 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:38 am

That just falls right into Putin's plan from day one when he became president, the hard liners have always wanted the Ukraine back under russian control.

If we stand back then when will it end ? It won't and every former Soviet country will be under threat.

iainpeden
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by iainpeden » Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:59 am

I think plmc135 is right in that the only end to this is negotiation. However, Putin, like Hitler, will never negotiate and even if a settlement could be reached the Russian regime could not be trusted to stick to it.

The only way out is for this Russian regime to be overthrown internally and that will only come about when the oligarchs and generals realise Putin’s strategy will bring them down too.

The number of Putin’s critics, and their families, who are dying in mysterious circumstances is a clear pointer he and his cabal are hanging on regardless.

raptor9
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by raptor9 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:03 am

Negotiate? With Putin???. You're having a laugh!!. Might as well just p..s in the wind. The effect will be the same!.

Rob666
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by Rob666 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:04 am

raptor9 wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:03 am
Negotiate? With Putin???. You're having a laugh!!. Might as well just p..s in the wind. The effect will be the same!.
If he was a rational person he would of never invaded Ukraine, the sooner he pops his clogs the better hopefully someone close to him in the Kremlin will make it happen sooner.

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plmc135
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by plmc135 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:49 am

raptor9 wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:03 am
Negotiate? With Putin???. You're having a laugh!!. Might as well just p..s in the wind. The effect will be the same!.
So how do you think this conflict will be resolved? I take it you want it to carry on indefinitely; our cost of living does not bear thought in that scenario.

NorvilleRogers
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by NorvilleRogers » Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:01 pm

plmc135 wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:49 am
raptor9 wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:03 am
Negotiate? With Putin???. You're having a laugh!!. Might as well just p..s in the wind. The effect will be the same!.
So how do you think this conflict will be resolved? I take it you want it to carry on indefinitely; our cost of living does not bear thought in that scenario.
Is that you Neville?

iainpeden
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Re: The Ukraine Situation

Post by iainpeden » Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:36 pm

plmc135 wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:49 am
raptor9 wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:03 am
Negotiate? With Putin???. You're having a laugh!!. Might as well just p..s in the wind. The effect will be the same!.
So how do you think this conflict will be resolved? I take it you want it to carry on indefinitely; our cost of living does not bear thought in that scenario.
The people who want this conflict to continue are two-fold: Putin and his cabal; and those who want to undermine western liberal democracy directly (China). There are also countries sitting on the fence for their own diverse reasons. The suggestion that people here want it to continue is wrong; however, it is a reality that there appears little scope for negotiation at present.

At the start of the conflict, when there was a real and genuine fear that nuclear options were imminent, there was some clear messaging from our MoD that clear lines of communication were open with the Russian High Command to ensure a nasty accident didn't happen. Recently, negotiations have allowed grain shipments to leave Ukraine and today, comes the news that nuclear inspectors are being allowed, by the Russians, to stay at the nuclear power station to monitor it's safety.

So, we have clear evidence that some discussion is taking place.

To expect a cessation of hostilities at this point is unrealistic; Putin has a clear agenda - one that a lot of Russians seem to believe and support and Zelensky is not stepping back from his position of the recapture of all the lands so far taken.

To tackle an enemy, and Putin and Russia are certainly that to the UK at present, one has to understand him. I've recently read Dimbleby's "Barbarossa" and Beevor's "Stalingrad; the two books together give a very clear understanding of the hatred of the Russians for the Ukranians - and very much vice-versa - which goes back over 200 years. They also give a horrifically clear picture of the atrocities committed by both sides and the support the Ukranians gave to the German forces during the Nazi invasion of Russia.

Putin's stated desire to rebuild a "Greater Russia" has to be understood in that historical context if his "argument" is to be tackled effectively. I'm totally with plmc that the only way out of this is negotiation but at present can't see any way towards that negotiation; remember this war has been going on since at least 2014 and like the India/Pakistan conflict over Kashmir is likely to grind to an uneasy stalemate.

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