F16 Demo Team breaks another jet!

[Motley]

That panel coming off could of been as simple as the latches on it not being put down correctly. If thats the case then no matter the flight the panel could of come off, i use to work on Tornados and ive heard loads of stories of panels coming off due to them not being fitted or secured correctly, in them cases had nothing to do with the pilot or how they were flying. Panels and parts of aircraft do come off more often than you would believe, most of the time.its down to engineering problems which then come to light due to the forces the aircraft feel when flying

[quid21]

The F16 was being flown well within its design capability, the most likely reason for the panel dropping off is a maintenance error or as suggested by the pilot, some form of breakage of its fixings. Either way it was just a matter of time when it departed company with the jet. The tail delamination at Fairford was most likely a materials failure that was exposed by the high g manoeuvring during the display. Having watched F16s at RIAT since 1985 nothing in the USAF demo at Fairford was extreme or pushing the envelope and in comparison with demos by the European teams over the years (including the recent Belgian, Greek, Dutch and Turkish displays) it was pretty pedestrian. Fast jet pilots are arrogant just like racing drivers, it goes with the job

There is an argument that a jet that is 30 years old cannot perform to the same G loading as when it was new.

If the delamination of material occurs at high G on an old jet then the US and most likely everyone else still flying 30 year old jets will have problems if they have to fight a younger set of enemy aircraft! Don't know if it's 30 years old, I guess it might be newer than that.

[mushbuster]

There is an argument that a jet that is 30 years old cannot perform to the same G loading as when it was new.

If the delamination of material occurs at high G on an old jet then the US and most likely everyone else still flying 30 year old jets will have problems if they have to fight a younger set of enemy aircraft! Don't know if it's 30 years old, I guess it might be newer than that.

The jet involved first flew in Dec 1998 so it is not yet an old airframe. We don't know the service history of the taileron, it could have been the original, a replacement from the desert, or even a new one. Composite control surface trailing edge delamination is hardly a new phenomenon on fast jets and it afflicts the most modern designs of fighter aircraft more often than many are aware.

[CHINOOKER]

Anyone who has ever worked on aircraft,both military or civil,would have experience of panel loss/delamination events!....Majority of panel losses occur due to poor ground operations or maintenance....on civil aircraft the majority of panels lost are from servicing access panels used in turnrounds etc....ground power/toilet servicing/cargo loading/air conditioning etc,etc......biggest panel i have personally seen lost was a 8x5 ft air conditioning panel lost off a B777,somewhere over the Atlantic,but only found missing when it arrived at Heathrow!
Delamination can occur on any composite part of an aircraft,whether or not it is subjected to "G" loads or not!.....Having worked on the B747/777 for most of my career,delamination of flap sections/elevators/ailerons/radomes and fixed wing panels has been almost a weekly occurrence.....usually this has not been bought about by the aircraft in question exceeding its performance criteria,but simply by water ingress due to paintwork missing or condensation build up within the structure of the composite panel itself....as a consequence of this phenomenon,radomes on most civilian airliners are regularly inspected using NDT techniques for water content.

Going back many years,I can recall a series of photos taken by someone at the end of Alconburys runway of an RF-4C Phantom that had just got airborne when the nose radome became undone and turned 90'.......not 100% sure but I believe the crew ejected and the aircraft went down in some fields a little further out??......sure someone on here will correct me if wrong etc!

In finality,modern aircraft,both civil and military are complex aircraft both to operate and maintain and unfortunately it is the "human" in the equation that often is the weakest link!!

[jpickers56]

The Alconbury incident you mentioned was back in June 1980, XV589 of 111sqd was the aircraft involved and you are correct the nose radome did come loose just after take off and crashed , both crew did eject, a chap called Steve Donald took the pictures and had them featured in Airforce Monthly.

[JAWS]

The Alconbury incident you mentioned was back in June 1980, XV589 of 111sqd was the aircraft involved and you are correct the nose radome did come loose just after take off and crashed , both crew did eject, a chap called Steve Donald took the pictures and had them featured in Airforce Monthly.

Found them , Incident report says aircraft was landing , not taking off :

http://web.archive.org/web/201605302012 ... e_Open.htm

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/82598

[CHINOOKER]

Thanks for the clarification guys!....Long time ago now and the "little grey cells" have deteriorated somewhat since then!....cheers!

[Viper28]

That panel coming off could of been as simple as the latches on it not being put down correctly. If thats the case then no matter the flight the panel could of come off, i use to work on Tornados and ive heard loads of stories of panels coming off due to them not being fitted or secured correctly, in them cases had nothing to do with the pilot or how they were flying. Panels and parts of aircraft do come off more often than you would believe, most of the time.its down to engineering problems which then come to light due to the forces the aircraft feel when flying

I've seen a panel come off a GR4 at Marham and the same panel come off on a video in Malta iirc. In both cases the jet was in a fast run and break with the wings at 65-67-degrees. The jet was operating within flight limits. Having spoken to a GR4 pilot about it, he said it was ''common' especially if the jet was carrying Hindenburgs.
I've also seen a F15c come back into Lakenheath with a missing panel, that one went on take off.
I'd say it's pretty common.
Oh I've also seen plenty of pictures out of commercial plane windows of missing panels on engines......

[ArabJazzie]

German Tornado at Leuchars Friday practice way back when, popped the panel behind the cockpit. Wonder why there wasnt a huge stooshie about it back then!
Arabest,
Geoff.

[phantomrob]

the F-16 at RIAT did not get damaged on the take off .
the Stabilizer was still in one piece on his second pass. i have a photo of it.
it was when he pulled out from the second pass that the panel broke.

[seven]

That panel coming off could of been as simple as the latches on it not being put down correctly. If thats the case then no matter the flight the panel could of come off, i use to work on Tornados and ive heard loads of stories of panels coming off due to them not being fitted or secured correctly, in them cases had nothing to do with the pilot or how they were flying. Panels and parts of aircraft do come off more often than you would believe, most of the time.its down to engineering problems which then come to light due to the forces the aircraft feel when flying

I've seen a panel come off a GR4 at Marham and the same panel come off on a video in Malta iirc. In both cases the jet was in a fast run and break with the wings at 65-67-degrees. The jet was operating within flight limits. Having spoken to a GR4 pilot about it, he said it was ''common' especially if the jet was carrying Hindenburgs.
I've also seen a F15c come back into Lakenheath with a missing panel, that one went on take off.
I'd say it's pretty common.
Oh I've also seen plenty of pictures out of commercial plane windows of missing panels on engines......

The Tornado incident at Malta was the drop tank disintegrating during said run and break.

7

[napalm42]

darn Hell, Good job you people wern`t around in the `good old days` when `elf & safety` and `Safely` wern`t mentioned every other word..
It is called F-16 DEMO Team for a reason - they demonstrate the jets capabilities.
I used to work on large airliners in maintenance,and believe it or not,bits fell off,panels became unlatched. Unfortunately , the pilots cannot pull into a layby, they have to land to be fixed..
That`s what happens.

[Campbell89]

Nope. Not really, he was losing height but recovered on the Saturday if you see the video.

I was calling the demo team at the stall arrogant, seeing as they know they don't like them performing that take off but still do it "because they can".

No he didn’t, or at least if he did it all looked controlled.

‘Almost dropped it on a campsite’ because he flew over it, in the same way I almost wrote my car off into a wall because I drove past one...

[Campbell89]

Speaking to the team at RIAT they mentioned that this year is potentially the last year of the viper demo team due to it being phased out for the F-35A. They also said if they continue to display the F-16 next year its highly likely it’ll be in the US only and we have seen the last of the Viper team abroad.

[PeteHemsley]

Anyone who has ever worked on aircraft,both military or civil,would have experience of panel loss/delamination events!....Majority of panel losses occur due to poor ground operations or maintenance....on civil aircraft the majority of panels lost are from servicing access panels used in turnrounds etc....ground power/toilet servicing/cargo loading/air conditioning etc,etc......biggest panel i have personally seen lost was a 8x5 ft air conditioning panel lost off a B777,somewhere over the Atlantic,but only found missing when it arrived at Heathrow!
Delamination can occur on any composite part of an aircraft,whether or not it is subjected to "G" loads or not!.....Having worked on the B747/777 for most of my career,delamination of flap sections/elevators/ailerons/radomes and fixed wing panels has been almost a weekly occurrence.....usually this has not been bought about by the aircraft in question exceeding its performance criteria,but simply by water ingress due to paintwork missing or condensation build up within the structure of the composite panel itself....as a consequence of this phenomenon,radomes on most civilian airliners are regularly inspected using NDT techniques for water content.

Going back many years,I can recall a series of photos taken by someone at the end of Alconburys runway of an RF-4C Phantom that had just got airborne when the nose radome became undone and turned 90'.......not 100% sure but I believe the crew ejected and the aircraft went down in some fields a little further out??......sure someone on here will correct me if wrong etc!

In finality,modern aircraft,both civil and military are complex aircraft both to operate and maintain and unfortunately it is the "human" in the equation that often is the weakest link!!

I'm completely with you. Carrying out C and D checks on large Boeing aircraft, we would be lucky not to have a delamination of trailing edge parts. It's generally inboard flaps that take the most beating. We very rarely see it on control surfaces, but theres a huge difference between a stab and a stabilator and resulting forces and pressures.

As for the panel falling off the f-16, im sure that panel is fitted with dzus fasteners which a quarter turn quick release. These are well known for popping in flight if the locking plate has wear.

[quid21]

darn Hell, Good job you people wern`t around in the `good old days` when `elf & safety` and `Safely` wern`t mentioned every other word..
It is called F-16 DEMO Team for a reason - they demonstrate the jets capabilities.
I used to work on large airliners in maintenance,and believe it or not,bits fell off,panels became unlatched. Unfortunately , the pilots cannot pull into a layby, they have to land to be fixed..
That`s what happens.

I recall a landing gear door falling of a 100ARW KC-135R a few years back, and I'm sure I've heard of engines falling off planes too in the past.

[Blue Diamond]

German Tornado at Leuchars Friday practice way back when, popped the panel behind the cockpit. Wonder why there wasnt a huge stooshie about it back then!
Arabest,
Geoff.

Because a) we found such things a bit exciting and b) with no social media, there were no keyboard warriors to bang on about it.