Civil servants to get afghan medal

[gonk]

Any one like to comment on this, my comments are not repeatable,it must be very dangerous being surrounded by staplers sharp pencils and the ever present danger of paper cuts, and i bet they have body armour


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... roops.html

[Pen Pusher]

Now this is taking the p**s!!!!!!!!!!!!!,i bet a high percentage of these civil servants sit behind a desk all day,and get paid high wages,get paid danger allowance,claim for clean pants everytime theres an explosion miles away,go round eyeing up female service personnel,unless they bat for the other side,...whilst our front-line servicemen/women are getting injured,bullets flying over them,post-traumatic stress syndrome,working very long hours night and day, and the list goes on,i can't understand the point why a civil servant has to get a medal,for doing what,just watch the news to see why troops/all armed forces men and women deserve to get a medal.....they work for it,and are true HEROES!!.

Here we go, the uninformed jumping on a band wagon, believing everything they read in the press and spouting off with verbal diarrhea without checking the facts.

For a start, If a civilian wasn't doing that job then a Service man would be doing it and then you would be complaining as to why a Service man was sitting behind a desk and not out fighting.

By the way, I've got a medal for 25 years service for sitting behind a desk.

Brian

[GOOSE]

Sorry people but Non story, again.

Just because they don't wear a uniform doesn't mean that they will not be the indiscriminate target of an errant RPG or mortar!

Of course anyone in theatre is in danger.

Do you propose withdrawing campaign medals for RAF aircrew who fly into the Afghan MOB's.

Do you suggest they only get a medal if they have been targetted by a SAM?

Come on guys, more aviation - less politics.

[Dunk]

just to put this into perspective, not all HM Forces are in the line of fire, during the first gulf war the Ark Royal was sat in the Med just West of Cypress, all onboard got a Gulf war medal - tell me that they deserved them?

As Goose says another non story, theres defo a witch hunt going on with the civil service from the media.

[HighlandSniper]

Until today, I had been really happy with the new FC board - then this thread and the F-35 discussion appeared. I won't get involved in this topic, neither will I comment further on the F-35 topic as I can't post on either without getting annoyed. On the topic of the F-35 it appears that in the opinion of one member I don't know what I'm talking about so I won't waste my time replying further, and this one just angers me full-stop - why one earth shouldn't civil servants be awarded campaign medals if they served?

I'm b angry.

[T_J]

Guys,
Time to get off the outrage bus. Like it or not they are entitled to the medal. It is awarded to HM Forces and Civilians whether they are in a combat role or not. Think of all the Service Personnel deployed whose job never takes them out of the base camps? Not every role can be a front line combat one. Do you want to see those camp based service personnel that have an admin, intel or logistic job have their Operational Service Medals taken away from them?.

Remember those camps are subjected to enemy mortar and rocket attack. Everyone deployed out there is doing a sterling job whatever their role or status. If you have served in the operational theatre, and meet the criteria, then you are entitled to the medal.

TJ

[Dunk]

Guys,
Time to get off the outrage bus. Like it or not they are entitled to the medal. It is awarded to HM Forces and Civilians whether they are in a combat role or not. Think of all the Service Personnel deployed whose job never takes them out of the base camps? Not every role can be a front line combat one. Do you want to see those camp based service personnel that have an admin, intel or logistic job have their Operational Service Medals taken away from them?.

Remember those camps are subjected to enemy mortar and rocket attack. Everyone deployed out there is doing a sterling job whatever their role or status. If you have served in the operational theatre, and meet the criteria, then you are entitled to the medal.

TJ

Well said fella.

[Pen Pusher]

It's not just overseas where a MoD Civil Servant could get blown up.

I used to work in the post room at RAF Finningley at a time when letter bombs were a constant threat. We were shown how to spot a suspect package and several times I called out the Police for such suspect packages.

Brian

[GOOSE]

Until today, I had been really happy with the new FC board - then this thread and the F-35 discussion appeared. I won't get involved in this topic, neither will I comment further on the F-35 topic as I can't post on either without getting annoyed. On the topic of the F-35 it appears that in the opinion of one member I don't know what I'm talking about so I won't waste my time replying further, and this one just angers me full-stop - why one earth shouldn't civil servants be awarded campaign medals if they served?

I'm b angry.

But you can't blame Fighter Control for every post or comment? Can you?

I certainly don't want to go down the route of censoring every post or amending every post so that it's non-contentious

That would be a complete waste of time to post, read and discuss.

[HighlandSniper]

I'm not blaming Fighter Control for anything - it's just the opinions of a couple of members which are annoying me, I felt it better to make this point rather than getting involved in anything further.

[urkles]

I got the GSM for serving on HMS Invincible policing the no-fly zone over Iraq in 1999 during heightened tensions, everyone involved got a medal no matter what the job, after all, we are a TEAM helping each other achieve the same objective. The ship was in alot less danger than troops on the ground and the chaps actually flying the missions(though there was no troops at this time). The only danger we were in were terrorists in dhows, this was just after the USS Cole incident after all, and a hyper active captain (but thats another story!)

Is it being suggested by some that until someone gets killed or injured in there role , only then they should recieve a medal? Our crew spent 5-6 months away from there loved ones, and with hindsight we were not in much danger but did not know that at the time. Whatever your role, if you are in the war zone (and I would suggest just being in Afghanistan you are in some sort of danger!) then I feel a medal is entitled, after all this medal is for those serving in the campaign, not for acts of bravery.

Lets pick on the real villains, politicians!

[Dunk]

Our crew spent 5-6 months away from there loved ones, and with hindsight we were not in much danger but did not know that at the time.

Yeah but you knew you would be away for those periods when you joined up. Ive done 8 month deployments on a proper 'sleek grey messenger of death' war canoe, you just get on with it and you dont expect a medal, however if you do, great!

The saying 'you choose your branch, you take your chance' springs to mind!

However, If you operate in a war zone, no matter whether civil or military then you are entitled to a medal, whether you are inside or outside the wire.

[KINROTATE]

As somebody who has been a civilian on an operational base and seen mortar rounds in the sky and their effects, I have no problem in MOD civilians getting medals. Point of fact is that the troops could not function in the 'war-fighting' role without the direct forward deployed support they recieve from MOD civilians and civilian contractors.

Non storey? - True.

[T_J]

I'm not blaming Fighter Control for anything - it's just the opinions of a couple of members which are annoying me, I felt it better to make this point rather than getting involved in anything further.

Rob,
It is called debate. It's no use walking away from a thread and posting a vanity post on another thread. It just smacks of stamping your feet.

TJ

[HighlandSniper]

I'm not blaming Fighter Control for anything - it's just the opinions of a couple of members which are annoying me, I felt it better to make this point rather than getting involved in anything further.

Rob,
It is called debate. It's no use walking away from a thread and posting a vanity post on another thread. It just smacks of stamping your feet.

TJ

Hmm ... ... ... how interesting that you should pick up the ball and run with it ... ... ...

[GOOSE]

OK gents, I'm sure we will concede there are 2 sides to every story and that we are all entitled to our opinions.

From a staff point of view I would ask all to exercise restraint over this obviously emotive issue.

Healthy debate, as our good friend Razor always points out, is good for the forum.

Backbiting and bickering is not.

If you are violently opposed to another members opinions and wish to take it up with that member, by pm, please do so.

However I urge you to keep it civil.

Any further personal sniping will simply be deleted.

Many thanks for your understanding.

[urkles]

Dunk, perhaps I should have pointed out that 6 month trip was 2 war zones, the Gulf and then Kosovo, but of course you are right, I would not expect a medal for a normal deployment (to be honest I didnt expect the GSM and NATO medal I got from that trip!)

I certainly would'nt expect a medal when all us WAFUs spent paid busmans holidays in hotels when not on ship in foreign parts

Mark

[colt99]

Maybe someone should tell the MOD that just because a serviceman or woman does a great deed in a "civil" area, they only deserve a George cross, not a victoria cross, only thing i ever heard from the Civil servants was "you will learn how to use your rifle when you get to Iraq because we havn't got enough money to teach you before" the reason i left the Royal Marines, civil servants will know about "serving" when they drive along a road, knowing they are going to get blown up, if you sit behined a desk you have NO IDEA.
Dave

[Pen Pusher]

Maybe someone should tell the MOD that just because a serviceman or woman does a great deed in a "civil" area, they only deserve a George cross, not a victoria cross, only thing i ever heard from the Civil servants was "you will learn how to use your rifle when you get to Iraq because we havn't got enough money to teach you before" the reason i left the Royal Marines, civil servants will know about "serving" when they drive along a road, knowing they are going to get blown up, if you sit behined a desk you have NO IDEA.
Dave

Checks your facts concerning the awarding of Victoria Cross and George medals. Your statement makes no sence

Civil Servants giving weapons training ??

if you sit behined a desk you have NO IDEA.

We have every idea about 'threats' as I said in my post above, if you read it, especially when the I.R.A. were active on the main land.

Brian

[colt99]

My point is i was sent to war, without knowing how to use a SUSAT, but they wanted to waste money on civvies who wanted to waste money, try standing behind someone who gets blown up opening a door, and when the coffin gets taken home, it's just sand to make the weight of a body, get some time in a warzone, then you may have some opinion.
My point about the george cross, if a military person is brave in a so-called civvie area, they get a george cross, THERE NEVER IS A CIVVIE AREA FOR US, same rounds, RPGs ,IEDs they all kill