CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with KC135

[stratofreighter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4O8kaKMv_U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After 25 seconds things get interesting, and from 0.38 onwards downright frightening...

More details through http://theaviationist.com/2012/10/19/close-call-e3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[markranger]

Just shows how hard it must be.
Looks scary for a second there.
Can't imagine it ever being straight forward.
Mark.

[Velvet Glove]

I think people will lose stripes over this, and I don’t just mean the ones that got washed out of the underwear.

[MikeB]

wow, I think there are 2 lucky crews there. Not sure what the E3 pilot was thinking??,in my opinion i have always thought the RAF method to be safer than the flying boom but at the end of the day both crews came home.

I don't think it entirely the E3 pilot's fault. Looks to me like the auto-pilot kicked out and the KC-135 dropped towards the E-3.

[stigorige]

When I was visiting Mildenhall a boomer told me that large aircraft create a "bow wave" which pushes the tankers tail up.
The pilot of the tanker has to re trim the KC to compensate, if the receiver pulls away too quickly the tanker goes nose up dropping the tail, in his words "it feels like your feet are above your head".
Maybe this is why the E3 seems to loom back towards the KC from below?
Cheers, Stig.

[Dazza37]

I don't think it entirely the E3 pilot's fault. Looks to me like the auto-pilot kicked out and the KC-135 dropped towards the E-3.

The KC-135 doesn't move until after the E-3 does its whoopsy, that near disaster was entirely on the side of the E-3... However, thats not to blame the E-3 crew, it may well have been a technical fault?

-Dazza

[MikeB]

I don't think it entirely the E3 pilot's fault. Looks to me like the auto-pilot kicked out and the KC-135 dropped towards the E-3.

The KC-135 doesn't move until after the E-3 does its whoopsy, that near disaster was entirely on the side of the E-3... However, thats not to blame the E-3 crew, it may well have been a technical fault?

-Dazza

My comment was on the theory of what Stig has said, however the bow wave is known to kick the auto pilot out. To me looking at the sky in the top left and the horizon, it looks like the KC-135 moves up then down, and then receiver pulls away.

[graham luxton]

A contributing factor, or cause of the incident, may have been turbulence in the A/R track. Have been on KC-135 sorties where this has been an issue.

[Dazza37]

Whatever the reason, at least the worst case scenario didn't happen, given that there seems to have been injuries aboard the E-3, lets hope they are minor and that the individuals make speedy recoveries. The thought of what might have happened had there been contact is awful...

-Dazza

[RichC]

Although we are all armchair experts, i have replayed the video over and over and over and from what i observe.
The KC135 seems to lose its attitude and it does look like a bow wave is the precursor to the incident. The KC135 seems to momentarily slouch (rear first) and i can only see it being a factor of bow wave and turbulence. (My opinion).
It looks like the KC gets caught up in the suction of the E3 as it pulls away, pulling it downwards somewhat and in that instance the E3 also is possibly sucked in to the KC135's wake and thus causing both (KC's rear to slouch down and the E3 to pitch up slightly) to come close to colliding.

I could be way off though... but we all know that getting to close to a wake of another large aircraft (out of the usual position of the AR boom) can suck in aircraft. We have seen small jets get the same treatment when flying close formation with much larger aircraft and of course ordnance being sucked into the plane that is dropping them causing fatalities.

I suppose there is only a very small window of stale air behind the KC135 of which it is safe to refuel, anything outside that window could cause the usual wake instances.
I, of course, not being qualified in that kind of aerodynamics can only assume what happened much like the rest of us but in my opinion, i see no blame on either the KC135 or E3 crews at all.

Can't fault either crews as we know nothing of the investigation and proper cause. So i don't see it fair to blame either.

[Paulo]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vbQ9LXZwJ78" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Back on if people want to see.

[Velvet Glove]

Should anyone want to download this video (KC135 & E3), now it’s in the public domain, I’ve put it in a shares folder in .mp4 format (6.3 MB) here ~
https://www.box.com/s/0p5t5ivutul7bqdh4izp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.

[awacsfan]

Thank you for making that video available
Cheers

Andy