American Airforce Day - your thoughts?

[jeallen01]

As the Subject - I'll post mine tomorrow!

[jeallen01]

jem60

Although we only went yesterday, my impressions were pretty similar to yours - but I did not want to prejudge the opinions of anyone else.

I think there could be a number of contributory factors, such as:

- The Sunday show was "sold out" and yet, as you said, spectator numbers looked very low, and it seems to me (and this has probably been posted before), that it looks like the field across the road from the Royston end is now fenced and gated off, so can't be used for overflow parking and that limits the numbers who can attend (and, presumably, that will affect all Duxford shows and not just this one).

- Although I don't usually attend the Spring shows, the prices of everything (entrance, car parking at £6 per car, food, programme, and so on) seemed around 10-20% higher than last year.

- The almost complete lack of present-day USAF (etc.) participation. On Sunday, only the Osprey was there - right at the Northern end of the Flightline - and we, being fairly late to leave, did get a fleeting glimpse of it taking off and heading home, but, apart from that there was nothing at all from the US forces. Surely the IWM with its "connections" could have done more to encourage formal US participation, and it appears to have made little attempt to "apologise" or explain to the paying customers why there was virtually no US forces contributions to the flying displays, who I think, would have been expecting more from the very way the show was pitched and promoted beforehand.

- The Typhoon and the Reds displays were good (and maybe, this time, I may have got some decent shots of the latter, but yet to check my memory cards)

- The "rest of the cast" were pretty much "standard Duxford fare", with a couple of non-military aerobatic displays (good though they were) thrown in, and many of the tail-chases went on for quite a long time and were repetitive - looked like they were stringing things out to fill the time available .

- At the crowd-line, to the field side of the Land Systems Museum there was a small area reserved for the "Press", which appeared to be conspicuous by its absence a little time before the flying started. Was this a sign of the (lack of) interest from that sector?

BTW, some questions to any IWM staff reading this:
We were at the Royston end by the Land Systems Museum, and so why:
- Was there only a solitary burger bar and one icecream van down that end - that number of people deserved more variety?
- Why were the field-level doors to the toilets at the North end of the Museum locked and marked as "Emergencies Only" - thus forcing everyone to go in through the main entrance and then down/up the narrow stairs (and wheel chair users would have had to go right to the other end of the building to use the lift!)? I asked one of the attendants if he knew the reasons, and he said he didn't!
- Why, with all the concern about FOD risks, were there no large, and only a very few small, litter containers at that end (possibly elsewhere as well) of the field for the visitors to use?

IMHO, this all smacks of the show being over-hyped and under-organised.

[Tiger 1]

Hi Everyone

I was at Duxford on Saturday, on arrival we showed the car park pass and drove to the parking area, no problem there. At the ticket kiosk it was not so easy with the staff having a few problems with the new eticket set up.

This included our tickets, one of which would not give a green or red light when scanned, someone in authority had to come over to give us permission to enter, so 15 minutes later we gained entry.

We were then straight on our way for a full English breakfast at the cafe, something we were very much looking forward to only to be told on arrival at the Armoury Cafe that this had been stopped and replaced with bacon or sausage cobs. So, although very dissapointed by this news as were a few others we noticed we decided on a bacon cob which unfortunatley came to us luke warm. The cafe is under new cattering arrangments we were told.

As we walked around the airfield it was very clear that the spectator numbers were down and during the show it was also clear the changes enforced after Shoreham were visable, with the Zero replica seeming to just circle the field, a lack of top side passes and none of the close passes at the M11 end that we all love.

I agree that there is never a bad Duxford, the KC135 could have done a few passes instead of just the one, and an F15 on static if not in the air would have been nice.

Having said all this, I still enjoyed the day and will continue to support the shows in the future...but please Duxford, bring back the full English Breakfast.

T1

[burnsy133]

Well this was my first ever show at Duxford and only my second ever visit I can't really comment on visitor numbers etc, however having read so much in the past and having seen so many amazing photos of a festival of variety I must say I was extremely disappointed. We arrived at 10.30 and were marshalled starlight into the disabled parking, very proficient, 10 minutes later we were walking towards the static lineup, like I said this is the first IWM show I have been to I had no idea what came next... After paying best part of £70 to get in I was now being asked for a further £18 to walk the static lineup, even though the two children I had with me had no interest in the planes I was forced to pay £6 each so they could walk with me...to me this is a complete rip off, I questioned the chap on the gate to be told if I wasn't happy paying it, don't... Nobody is making me...I was flabbergasted to say the least.

The display itself seems to be packed out with tail draggers with virtually nothing to back up the American theme, the flyby of the KC-135 was nice (unless you blinked and missed it) ...overall very disappointing with the aircraft participants.

Like I say, first time I have ever been and unfortunately will be my last.

Overall very disappointed

Rob

[Strathayr]

Not a man of many words but this air show was the most disappointing I have attended both professionally and privately .What were the organiser thinking off even considering current safety concerns.They still should have introduced some excitement to a boring event.On a separate issue no breakfast available in the Armoury this was a disappointment and totally unacceptable. Duxford must get their act together for Duxford air shows to survive in the future because the public will not pay entrance fees to watch poor shows.

[jeallen01]

Burnsy. Please don't make it your last. Turn up at Flying Legends, you will find this an amazing show. It is not run by IWM, but by Stephen Grey's Fighter Collection. I'm sure others will back me up on this.

As stated, Flying Legends is generally (and I hope also this year as I have already bought the tickets!) a much better organised and run show (and they are not charging for the car parking!) than this weekend's one - the IWM team should learn some hard lessons from its "tenant" or, next year, the Spring Show will be even worse by comparison! OTOH, maybe the Fighter Collection should make a bid to run more of the Duxford shows .

PS: To anyone who was working at the "grass roots" level before, on, and after the show days - especially the volunteers - "Thank You", because I'm not pointing fingers at you guys - but at "the Management" which oversaw the whole operation.

[jeallen01]

One little snippet of information I found out yesterday when talking to one of Duxford's volunteers, Duxford Airshow only got their CAA approval for the show on Friday!
Yikes, that's cutting it fine!

Rog.

Very fine indeed, but could that have been because the list of participating planes appears to have been "very fluid" right up to the last moment, and/or, maybe, the CAA inspectors wanted to see the practice sessions from some of the more "risky" (!!?) participants (not that I think that there were any) before granting the permissions?

If the latter is true, then that bodes somewhat ill for some other shows this year (and thereafter).

Wonder what they would have done if the CAA had not granted the permission?

[Supra]

Probably would've kept the money from the advance sales...as it would've been an act of God cancellation ??
Being the Uber-Almighty is the mantle the CAA have assumed since eventually getting off their arses & making a Cash-cow out of a Tragedy!

[Flightline UK]

One little snippet of information I found out yesterday when talking to one of Duxford's volunteers, Duxford Airshow only got their CAA approval for the show on Friday!
Yikes, that's cutting it fine!

Rog.

That's not that unusual, and certainly nothing new this year! It been a constant thorn for organisers for many years that CAA permissions are issued so late in the planning process.

[jeallen01]

Probably would've kept the money from the advance sales...as it would've been an act of God cancellation ??
Being the Uber-Almighty is the mantle the CAA have assumed since eventually getting off their arses & making a Cash-cow out of a Tragedy!

Don't think the UK courts would accept the CAA as "God" in that context - even though the CAA might like to think of itself as such . ( Would be interesting to find out though as there might be relevant precedents)

PS: This afternoon I had a customer-satisfaction survey invite about the show from the IWM - made some abbreviated comments along the lines of the 3x "Whys".. in my second post. Suggest anyone else who gets the invite does the same. OTOH, I wonder if any of us will get any form of replies (I doubt it!)

[Blue Diamond]

We attended on the Sunday. A breeze getting in even though our tickets wouldn't scan so the kiosk lady just swapped them for ones that did. Attendance was well down on previous shows I've been to as we had no problem getting positions on the fence and the tank bank. This is in spite of arriving at 11:30. Have they banned top side passes? These were noticeable by their almost complete absence. It is nice to see the top side of an aircraft once in a while during a routine so many of the flybys seemed tame compared to previous shows. Using 06 was a bonus though as some good approach and landing shots were to be had. Typhoon, Apache and Reds were excellent. Would like to hear from somebody who was down the M11 end as it seems many displays were turning short - presumably to avoid the airspace above the M11.

[peasus911]

I attended on Sunday. Had the same issue with the ticket scanner but after 5-6 mins all was ok. Parked and duly set up small tent behind the white line (no real drama as it was only about 8ft away from the barrier). walked down to get a programme to be informed that as I had purchased a voucher online I needed to redeem this at the main shop at the opposite end. I tried my luck at the IWM tent halfway down and was told that they could scan so all ok. Stalls did seem a bit thin on the ground and only a few food outlets around. Flightline walk was next on the list and to my surprise I was allowed to walk into the V-22, after taking a few shots of the cockpit and talking to the crew I continued along the flightline and then returned to my seat and family. Very surprised to see huge gaps along the crowd line at 11:30 but put this down to the weather as it was quite cold with a stiff breeze. Speakers then informed us that due to the low cloud, the Typhoon had been put back to 3:30 to allow for better height. Show started and went through its various decades with well flown displays and formations.
After the display was over I did feel the display could have had a better content from the present day USAF and the V-22 should have flown past the eager waiting crowd with cameras all set and ready instead of skirting along the horizon before flying off. Overall I went home happy but knowing I had seen better form a May Show (D-Day 2014 was epic)
That may be the problem, how does IWM better what they have done before. Slowly sifting through my photos after the event and I would have to say I still thought the show was value for money.

PS. Would also agree fully and applaud all the unsung helpers at Duxford for their valiant help and support to allow the show to take place.

[Doughnut]

Would like to hear from somebody who was down the M11 end as it seems many displays were turning short - presumably to avoid the airspace above the M11.

Quite so. From my usual parking place close to the childrens play area the only aircraft to over fly the M11 were the Spitfire/Hurricane of the BBMF which did several curved / topside departures over the M11 roundabout before returning straight down the runway. All other aircraft were turning well short of the threshold and flying away from the airfield parallel to the M11. My disabled partner noticed the change in flightline from previous years and we had to move closer to the middle, stopping opposite the B-17. From there reasonable photographs of the two C-47s and the four ship of fighter could be taken, these only because of the more favourable light later in the day. Despite being allowed to use the disabled parking at the M11 end of the airfield I think we may use the parking at the Land Warfare end next time as viewing from the disabled parking is now not so good.

[paullangford]

My thoughts:

Sure, some things could have been handled better, but like every other show organiser this year, they've had new challenges to meet, so they're trying new things.
Some things have worked, some things haven't, for what it's worth here's my insights.

I didn't go into the show Saturday, but there seemed to be the usual numbers of people in for a Sunday Spring Airshow, which was great.
Locking the ground level access doors to the toilets at the Land Warfare Hall was ............just stupid. I saw many an OAP having to walk up the grassy sides onto the long ramp to go into the museum to go down the stairs, & then to come back up on the stairs to go down the ramp......why ?
The days of aircraft arcing downwards towards the tank bank or the M11 end....are over it seems..............not too sure why.
The centreline of the display has definitely moved westwards, being more at the American Air Museum than the VC10.
I was positioned at the tank bank end, and from the first few displays it became apparent that if you were down at the M11 end.............you're not part of the show, not a lot was happening that end.
If the rumour is true and there is no tank bank end for 'Legends'......so.......where to go?
Advanced ticket sales........why ?.......did it get me in any quicker ?........not in the slightest. I can only assume it's so that they don't get a scenario from past experiences, that if the airfield reaches capacity and people get turned away, then those people won't go to the surrounding area to watch from the outside.
Car Parking fee of £5.00................why ?..............I can only assume it's to pay for fences and road closure notices and high vis security people.
The flight line walk seems to be increasing by a £1.00 a year on average......£6.00 this year........thank god the yanks were there with an Osprey you could walk into.......otherwise....I felt a bit ripped off, I can't think of another airshow where I pay to look at the aircraft on the ground, that I've already paid for.
Was it an "American Airshow ?".............no................a "Spring Airshow"............yes.
Aircraft displaying further away ?............yes.........a bit worse for photography ?...........yes............impossible for photography...........no, did it spoil watching the show ?............not really.
Did the displaying seem more lethargic, less exciting ?.................yes...............why ?
The white line of doom for windbreaks, did it work ?..........yes........was there a viewing problem before this..............I don't think so, as there is black netting on the fence anyway, and people stand up.
The large TV screens were a really great idea, especially with the voice overs, mini documentaries, Band of Brothers theme...............inspired, brilliant.
The Bronco and Skyvan double act, The Reds, Typhoon, BBMF, & double C47 landings were the highlights for me............the rest were forgettable.
The most expensive Duxford so far....was it the best ?..........no......was it just ok ?....yes.
Will we be going the Legends ?............no, because it's on the same time as RIAT............sigh (bangs head on table).

There have been quite a few shows that have cancelled this year, Duxford could have quite easily done the same, they haven't, they're giving it a go in very difficult circumstances and should be applauded in my opinion.....and supported. They WILL make mistakes, and in my opinion they have made a couple of biggies this time, but hopefully they'll listen to the criticism and address some of these, and they must be given a chance to do that.

I went in with a group of photographers, aviation enthusiasts, and some people that had never been to an airshow before. Did we experience an unmitigated disaster ?...............no, not in the slightest..............are we giving Duxford another chance ?..................sure.

[Goosebumps]

A great summery. For me I went on the Friday. Not because of the cost. its really that I have a problem buying a family ticket in advance and the weather being a disaster, as it was it was an OK Weekend.

It would be nice for IWM Duxford to make some kind of official comment apart from the one that was made on the national news where they claimed the weekend was a complete success, Certainly not expecting them to justify for there actions but purely a response to some of the comments that have been made. Maybe it would show that they do take on board some of what has been said and maybe improve for the future.

[jeallen01]

Goosebumps

I second your second para about the IWM's responses to the points made on this forum ,- I'm sure someone there at least monitors this forum, so, come-on, let's hear "something" from "you".

PS: after all, we are the public who were paying to attend the event!

[Goosebumps]

One quick question. Was the school open ?